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-   -   DO you think battle rap PERPETUATES racism.... (http://rmbva.com/showthread.php?t=24141)

Abstrakt 02-01-2016 02:26 PM

DO you think battle rap PERPETUATES racism....
 
...or helps against it.

i.e.: Perpetuates racism:
-"Bulletz is corny, i'd never believe he shot a gun"
-"all those smack guys do is talk about gun bars"


i.e. Helps against:
-blacks and whites together at events discussing who they thought won
-heated battle ends in handshake and isnt really serious

Ass Napkin Ed 02-01-2016 02:31 PM

In before Ass Napkin Ed chimes in.....
oh wait....

cripplesunday1 02-01-2016 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ass Napkin Ed (Post 635445)
In before Ass Napkin Ed chimes in.....
oh wait....

Interested to read your opinion on this.

cripplesunday1 02-01-2016 02:39 PM

Both is my answer.

I'm sure there are many examples to argue both sides.

CBA 02-01-2016 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cripplesunday1 (Post 635447)
Both is my answer.

I'm sure there are many examples to argue both sides.

Pretty much my same answer.... but both?

ledge 02-01-2016 02:54 PM

battle rap is racist as fuck

mapleleaf 02-01-2016 03:23 PM

there's enough racial content that at least a certain portion of very stupid fans will have their views influenced by the racial material in battles but anybody who can use critical thinking shouldn't really be hurt by it

but yeah in the same vein that a lot of fans just want to watch someone be called a "faggot" and have their "life picked apart", there are people that want to see race jokes and racial content

Ass Napkin Ed 02-01-2016 03:26 PM

^^^
bhaaaaaaaahaa

6000GP 02-01-2016 03:49 PM

Well, it absolutely, 100% doesn't help against it. Is that a real question, even? I can think of a single instance that it as ever helped against racism. I can think of a hundred where it has promoted racism, on the otherhand.

But I kinda agree with what mapleleaf said.

The fucked up part is when a platform like kotd purposefully sets up a battle based on the races of the battlers. That is a divisive gimmick and always hurts the community.

The problem I have with racism in battle rap isn't that it's personally hurtful, it's that it's a misuse of rap culture. These people that otherwise wouldn't have anything to do with rap are basically trying to (or encouraging people to) weaponize it, and use it against itself. They may not all realize that that's what they are doing, but it's definitely happening.

Tyren 02-01-2016 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6000GP (Post 635466)
Well, it absolutely, 100% doesn't help against it. Is that a real question, even? I can think of a single instance that it as ever helped against racism. I can think of a hundred where it has promoted racism, on the otherhand.

But I kinda agree with what mapleleaf said.

The fucked up part is when a platform like kotd purposefully sets up a battle based on the races of the battlers. That is a divisive gimmick and always hurts the community.

The problem I have with racism in battle rap isn't that it's personally hurtful, it's that it's a misuse of rap culture. These people that otherwise wouldn't have anything to do with rap are basically trying to (or encouraging people to) weaponize it, and use it against itself. They may not all realize that that's what they are doing, but it's definitely happening.

While 99% of battle content dosent help racisim at all, some battles have a little postive effect on it. Eg lux vs hollow/cal day vs oops

DonnaDaMom 02-01-2016 04:03 PM

"only gun bars from black battlers are legit"

go figure.

6000GP 02-01-2016 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyren (Post 635469)
While 99% of battle content dosent help racisim at all, some battles have a little postive effect on it. Eg lux vs hollow/cal day vs oops

Lol, what?? What did those battles have to do with racism?

RonRon da Dong 02-01-2016 04:08 PM

Battlerap does more to bring different races together than it does to seperate them. Racism loses to battlerap regularly because at the end of the day we shake hands regardless of color.

ledge 02-01-2016 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonRon da Dong (Post 635475)
Battlerap does more to bring different races together than it does to seperate them. Racism loses to battlerap regularly because at the end of the day we shake hands regardless of color.


That's so far from truth -

It puts races together in stereotypical formats, that for intelligent people is so blatantly obvious.

'Let's put the corny white shy kid from Canada against the big scary black man from New Jersey hoods, that'll be funny and get views'

Every single league is laden with racism

The only positive I can say about URL with it is they just don't give a shit which is better then denying you are a part of it.

I hate the conspiracy shit, and it could mostly be blind racism but battling is racist as fuck.

RonRon da Dong 02-01-2016 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ledge (Post 635476)
That's so far from truth -

It puts races together in stereotypical formats, that for intelligent people is so blatantly obvious.

'Let's put the corny white shy kid from Canada against the big scary black man from New Jersey hoods, that'll be funny and get views'

Every single league is laden with racism

The only positive I can say about URL with it is they just don't give a shit which is better then denying you are a part of it.

I hate the conspiracy shit, and it could mostly be blind racism but battling is racist as fuck.

LOL slow down there homie, we're talking about a platform where 2 people roast each other about their obvious differences. If you're accusing every person who's ever said a 'racist joke' as being legit racist then you're being an over analytical tool. Battlerap brings different races together to a common ground and encourages communal tolerance by doing so more so than match ups or insults encourages intolerance imo.

Seanzo 02-01-2016 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonRon da Dong (Post 635477)
LOL slow down there homie, we're talking about a platform where 2 people roast each other about their obvious differences. If you're accusing every person who's ever said a 'racist joke' as being legit racist then you're being an over analytical tool. Battlerap brings different races together to a common ground and encourages communal tolerance by doing so more so than match ups or insults encourages intolerance imo.

Does this lead to progress or is it just normalizing racism?

ledge 02-01-2016 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonRon da Dong (Post 635477)
LOL slow down there homie, we're talking about a platform where 2 people roast each other about their obvious differences. If you're accusing every person who's ever said a 'racist joke' as being legit racist then you're being an over analytical tool. Battlerap brings different races together to a common ground and encourages communal tolerance by doing so more so than match ups or insults encourages intolerance imo.


you clearly didn't read what I said.

Never mentioned racist jokes etc, I don't care about that, as its part of the 'comp'.

Battling is racist, where and how does it bring races together...the only place in battling isn't blatently racist is KOTDFC.

Also you host a series on a forum about drawing battlers, let's not talk toolishness and throw barbs etc.

6000GP 02-01-2016 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonRon da Dong (Post 635475)
Battlerap does more to bring different races together than it does to seperate them. Racism loses to battlerap regularly because at the end of the day we shake hands regardless of color.

Give me an example of racism losing to battle rap plz

Shaking hands after u just got paid for a performance with what is essentially ur business partner doesn't count.

Keep in mind that these battles don't exist in a vacuum where only the 2 battlers are affected. Look at a guy like Ron, for example. You can't tell me that there aren't legit racists out there that identify with him and get a kick out of watching him "beat black people at their own game" using racism. That is, in effect, promoting racism and attracting like-minded people which perpetuates racism. You saw that stormfront thread I linked. They would've loved Ron.

My Kall 02-01-2016 04:46 PM

For the most part Battle-Rap absolutely perpetuates the misguided stereotype that black people are thoughtless, decadent, ignorant, uncivilized. I wonder if black people feel embarrassed by how Battle-Rap represents the race they belong to, I can't speak for them. One could make a case that the leagues are exploiting black gun-bar battlers. White Supremacists might want us to watch Battle-Rap, they'd highlight it as anti black propaganda. I can actually imagine white racists may enjoy Battle-Rap for the above reasons.

HOWEVER Rappers like Rakim, Canibus, Talib Kweli, Del Tha Funkee Homosapien, Ras Kass, Wise Intelligent, L Da Headtoucha, Cyne etc actually diminish the prejudiced pre-conceived notions white society assumes about black people. In fact those rappers proved to me how ludicrous racism actually is. If every black battler performformed more like Lux and Pass, Battle-Rap would be oblierating the stigmas pertaining to black people.

sleeping dogs 02-01-2016 04:46 PM

battle rap normalizes racism and other harmful behavior by perpetuating microaggressions.

RonRon da Dong 02-01-2016 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seanzo (Post 635481)
Does this lead to progress or is it just normalizing racism?

I think it's progressive tbh. Idk what u mean by normalizing racism when, atleast in America, racism and prejudice is a pretty normal thing from place to place unfortunately. But I believe battle rap (much like hip hop) is pretty effective at breaking racist ideals in people that may have been instilled by their parents/family members etc (particularly with white ppl) Do you think stand up comedy is 'normalizing' racism?

Ass Napkin Ed 02-01-2016 04:51 PM

White People are Racist, because it benefits them and the system supports them mistreating non-whites. Battle Rap isn't gonna change that.

6000GP 02-01-2016 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ledge (Post 635482)
...the only place in battling isn't blatently racist is KOTDFC.

Nah, that can't be true, because they've been setting up matches based on people's races forever. Kotd is the most racist of all leagues to be completely real.

URL slipped up and did the suge vs charron battle one time, and that was lame. Everyone saw how divisive that gimmick was. DF pretty much avoids those types of gimmicks altogether. And every street oriented league (black ice, rbe, traphouse, spit dat heat, etc.) sets up matches based on styles, not race.

Ass Napkin Ed 02-01-2016 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6000GP (Post 635492)
Nah, that can't be true, because they've been setting up matches based on people's races forever. Kotd is the most racist of all leagues to be completely real.

URL slipped up and did the suge vs charron battle one time, and that was lame. Everyone saw how divisive that gimmick was. DF pretty much avoids those types of gimmicks altogether. And every street oriented league (black ice, rbe, traphouse, spit dat heat, etc.) sets up matches based on styles, not race.

(k-shine) talk to that saltine!

Seanzo 02-01-2016 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6000GP (Post 635492)
Nah, that can't be true, because they've been setting up matches based on people's races forever. Kotd is the most racist of all leagues to be completely real.

URL slipped up and did the suge vs charron battle one time, and that was lame. Everyone saw how divisive that gimmick was. DF pretty much avoids those types of gimmicks altogether. And every street oriented league (black ice, rbe, traphouse, spit dat heat, etc.) sets up matches based on styles, not race.

out of curiosity, what KOTD match ups do you feel were set up based on race? Not saying there aren't any, just wondering which ones you personally think were.

sleeping dogs 02-01-2016 04:54 PM

battle rap is one of the furthest things from progressive, and yes stand up comedy is problematic and normalizes racism. the idea that you can't be funny without putting someone else on the receiving end is stifling and lazy. i'm not even sure how this is even up for debate? battle rap is all about continuing the narrative of hypermasculinity.

ledge 02-01-2016 04:55 PM

Black battlers, give white leagues street cred, white promoters drool over the chance at booking a black battler even if they have been horrible recently (Rex ie). You think white leagues are getting/hitting the market, that's a majority black audience if they just book it white? Then because of this, very GOOD white/black battlers get passed up. What's the last URL battle featuring a white person? I bet they faced another white person, or someone 'big and scary'.

I could go on and on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6000GP (Post 635492)
Nah, that can't be true, because they've been setting up matches based on people's races forever. Kotd is the most racist of all leagues to be completely real.

URL slipped up and did the suge vs charron battle one time, and that was lame. Everyone saw how divisive that gimmick was. DF pretty much avoids those types of gimmicks altogether. And every street oriented league (black ice, rbe, traphouse, spit dat heat, etc.) sets up matches based on styles, not race.


Oh I'm in full agreement with you. I meant more the vibes I get from the California agenda, not necessarily KOTD's.


edit:

It's funny because I was recently called out for voicing this...

Ass Napkin Ed 02-01-2016 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleeping dogs (Post 635495)
battle rap is one of the furthest things from progressive, and yes stand up comedy is problematic and normalizes racism. the idea that you can't be funny without putting someone else on the receiving end is stifling and lazy. i'm not even sure how this is even up for debate? battle rap is all about continuing the narrative of hypermasculinity.

Goes deeper than that. All forms of Western Entertainment are heavily rooted in racism. gospel/blues - minstrel shows - vaudeville - present day Hollywood all rooted in imitating/mimicking black slaves and black negative stereotypes.
Battle Rap is an extension of all that

RonRon da Dong 02-01-2016 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6000GP (Post 635485)
Give me an example of racism losing to battle rap plz

I see people of different colors and cultures standing together shoulder to shoulder in participation more so than I see deliberate segregation and racial indifference. There is unity there. How many events have turned into riots because of racial tension? How often does a person tell a racist joke and only people of that persons race react? You're latching on to too many small incidents instead of looking at the bigger picture. I think everyone can agree that Ron was a very strange exception and not all white rappers share his perspective.

6000GP 02-01-2016 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Kall (Post 635487)
For the most part Battle-Rap absolutely perpetuates the misguided stereotype that black people are thoughtless, decadent, ignorant, uncivilized. I wonder if black people feel embarrassed by how Battle-Rap represents the race they belong to, I can't speak for them. One could make a case that the leagues are exploiting black gun-bar battlers. White Supremacists might want us to watch Battle-Rap, they'd highlight it as anti black propaganda. I can actually imagine white racists may enjoy Battle-Rap for the above reasons.

The fact that u think this says more about u than it does about black people.

But it also shows how hip hop culture is perceived by outsiders, which in turn, does help to perpetuate racism in battle rap.

I was watching the coma vs chef trez battle last night, and half of the battle coma wasnt even battling trez, he was battling black people, in general. I don't see how anyone can think this is a positive thing unless u have some sick desire to see "black people put in their place", which I suspect a lot of people actually want. And that's fine, but using a culture that was created as a way for people of color to be able to express themselves and fun AWAY from the racist world that their forced to deal with day in and say out is a massive violation imo. Use some other medium to express your hatred imo.

Nick H. 02-01-2016 05:01 PM

There are many instances where battle rap not only helps people transcend boundaries of race, socio economic class, religion, and nation and is an aid to a greater understanding of varying cultures at large..

however it largely depends on the audience..

Ass Napkin Ed 02-01-2016 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick H. (Post 635500)
There are many instances where battle rap not only helps people transcend boundaries of race, socio economic class, religion, and nation and is an aid to a greater understanding of varying cultures at large..

however it largely depends on the audience..

I know your mourning right now.
So, I will get back to you later about you know what

#hypocrisy

ledge 02-01-2016 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick H. (Post 635500)
There are many instances where battle rap not only helps people transcend boundaries of race, socio economic class, religion, and nation and is an aid to a greater understanding of varying cultures at large..

however it largely depends on the audience..

I mean you know as well as I do, that ignorant people have the approach that if it's not written down in front of them they won't notice.

It's more apparent then I think most people let themselves believe.

Nick H. 02-01-2016 05:05 PM

nah please do bro mayen..

i don't see how there is even an ounce of that hashtag in what i just posted tho so per usual, please enlighten me..

Seanzo 02-01-2016 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Kall (Post 635487)
For the most part Battle-Rap absolutely perpetuates the misguided stereotype that black people are thoughtless, decadent, ignorant, uncivilized. I wonder if black people feel embarrassed by how Battle-Rap represents the race they belong to, I can't speak for them.

Is that how you feel when you watch the URL? Man, this was a weird post.

6000GP 02-01-2016 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonRon da Dong (Post 635498)
I see people of different colors and cultures standing together shoulder to shoulder in participation more so than I see deliberate segregation and racial indifference. There is unity there. How many events have turned in riots because of racial tension? How often does a person tell a racist joke and only people of that persons race react? You're latching on to many small incidents instead of looking at the bigger picture. I think everyone can agree that Ron was a very strange exception and not all white rappers share his perspective.

I don't see that as helpful tbh. I mean, in a way, I see where your coming from but it goes beyond just that.

Again, the battles don't exist in a vacuum where only the people in attendance are affected.

Racists at home are getting off to a lot of this shit, and thus, it's promoting racism.

sleeping dogs 02-01-2016 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6000GP (Post 635499)
The fact that u think this says more about u than it does about black people.

But it also shows how hip hop culture is perceived by outsiders, which in turn, does help to perpetuate racism in battle rap.

I was watching the coma vs chef trez battle last night, and half of the battle coma wasnt even battling trez, he was battling black people, in general. I don't see how anyone can think this is a positive thing unless u have some sick desire to see "black people put in their place", which I suspect a lot of people actually want. And that's fine, but using a culture that was created as a way for people of color to be able to express themselves and fun AWAY from the racist world that their forced to deal with day in and say out is a massive violation imo. Use some other medium to express your hatred imo.

this. that 3rd round made me all sorts of uncomfortable. respectability politics w/no sympathy or understanding for how black people are often born and forced into undesirable circumstances by social institutions that are against them.

ledge 02-01-2016 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Kall (Post 635487)
For the most part Battle-Rap absolutely perpetuates the misguided stereotype that black people are thoughtless, decadent, ignorant, uncivilized. I wonder if black people feel embarrassed by how Battle-Rap represents the race they belong to, I can't speak for them. One could make a case that the leagues are exploiting black gun-bar battlers. White Supremacists might want us to watch Battle-Rap, they'd highlight it as anti black propaganda. I can actually imagine white racists may enjoy Battle-Rap for the above reasons.

HOWEVER Rappers like Rakim, Canibus, Talib Kweli, Del Tha Funkee Homosapien, Ras Kass, Wise Intelligent, L Da Headtoucha, Cyne etc actually diminish the prejudiced pre-conceived notions white society assumes about black people. In fact those rappers proved to me how ludicrous racism actually is. If every black battler performformed more like Lux and Pass, Battle-Rap would be oblierating the stigmas pertaining to black people.

Conscious rappers are some of the more blindly racist people out there.

They immediately say, 'I learned something at one point which makes me better than my brothers.'

6000GP 02-01-2016 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seanzo (Post 635494)
out of curiosity, what KOTD match ups do you feel were set up based on race? Not saying there aren't any, just wondering which ones you personally think were.

A lot of the illmac, caustic, rone, Ron, charron, and others over the past few years. Just off the top of my head..

Seanzo 02-01-2016 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6000GP (Post 635505)
I don't see that as helpful tbh. I mean, in a way, I see where your coming from but it goes beyond just that.

Again, the battles don't exist in a vacuum where only the people in attendance are affected.

Racists at home are getting off to a lot of this shit, and thus, it's promoting racism.

This is something I get from TalkBack more than here, tbh. Like, it's quite clear in some of those groups that a lot of fans of battle rap who don't like hip hop really get off on hearing battlers say racist things. Not to hate on Caustic, since I do think he can be dope, but a lot of his fans really latch onto the racial material he has spat.


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