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-   -   Thoughts on up and comers paying vets to battle??? (http://rmbva.com/showthread.php?t=27348)

Solace254 02-15-2017 04:17 PM

Thoughts on up and comers paying vets to battle???
 
I've been thinking about this recently and have mixed feelings on it. You have people like bloody knuckles who will let you pay for a vet to battle you so he can have a larger profile on his channel. I think the only time it is acceptable is when you live in bumblefuck Egypt and will never get that look from your local scene.

Even then you probably don't get a good look from it since it's a no name league with a bunch of stick magoos in the background and technical issues fucking up the footage. How do people feel about this in general? Is it cool to pay vets to battle?

cripplesunday1 02-15-2017 04:31 PM

Do what ya gotta do innit.

ThaDiz 02-15-2017 04:35 PM

Long as the footage isn't horrible I don't see a problem. I wouldn't do it if I knew that had another battle booked near tho or you'd just be fucking up. I live in Cornwall which is the ass end of England and was planning on flying out 3 smack rappers to battle myself and two other top local rappers, although we were going to do it old school in a garage with few heads so you don't get people who don't know about battling ruining shit. Ultimately I think it's just how you go about it, and the intention behind it.

youdontwannabethatguy 02-15-2017 04:40 PM

You have to win , they have to actually try for it to mean anything and you have to have an actual chance of making the money back in the future off your growth as a battler

Fingers 02-15-2017 04:51 PM

There is an absolute need to invest in your dreams, talent and future. So of course. I'm surprised it hasn't happened as often.

What are the real examples though?

SMP vs Dizaster
Chilla vs JC

Any others?

PJ Sumroc 02-15-2017 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fingers (Post 714262)
There is an absolute need to invest in your dreams, talent and future. So of course. I'm surprised it hasn't happened as often.

What are the real examples though?

SMP vs Dizaster
Chilla vs JC

Any others?

Danny Myers vs T-Rex ...i know there is more cant of em right now though

LukeWaltonisGoat 02-15-2017 05:04 PM

Johnnie Alcatraz vs Qleen

Can anyone think of a time where it's actually helped someone's stock outside of Chilla and Jc? Because it seems like it hurts your brand way more than it helps it especially since the very first bar from your opponent is gonna be "you paid me out your own pocket that's the only reason I'm taking you"

I would never advise someone to pay another battler to battle them I think it hurts your brand... Paying for a look could benefit you tho

Solace254 02-15-2017 05:24 PM

See I get investing in your craft. I constantly buy better tools for my job. However I have concrete proof on the return before the purchase. I'm with LWIG on wondering who this has actually helped. Danny is retarded because he was already getting pushed by KOTD. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done. I'm just curious on what it does for people and how it's viewed. I remember this little white kid paid bill collector to battle and it was sad. Like I felt that sitcom level embarrassment for him. Got me thinking about it.

Fingers 02-15-2017 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solace254 (Post 714268)
See I get investing in your craft. I constantly buy better tools for my job. However I have concrete proof on the return before the purchase. I'm with LWIG on wondering who this has actually helped. Danny is retarded because he was already getting pushed by KOTD. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done. I'm just curious on what it does for people and how it's viewed. I remember this little white kid paid bill collector to battle and it was sad. Like I felt that sitcom level embarrassment for him. Got me thinking about it.

Well that classic took Chilla from the Shark Tank and Poison Pen TV to the big stage and international battles.

SonnyDaze 02-15-2017 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youdontwannabethatguy (Post 714256)
You have to win , they have to actually try for it to mean anything and you have to have an actual chance of making the money back in the future off your growth as a battler

The chances of all these things falling into place seem very slim.

I guess the biggest X factor is already having an elite level of skill and only needing the exposure to make it to a much more significant stage.

Too many battlers who follow this path are only good in their local scene and average at best otherwise.

RandallFlagg 02-15-2017 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeWaltonisGoat (Post 714265)
Johnnie Alcatraz vs Qleen

Can anyone think of a time where it's actually helped someone's stock outside of Chilla and Jc?

Shotty horror and Dizaster.

LukeWaltonisGoat 02-15-2017 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandallFlagg (Post 714284)
Shotty horror and Dizaster.

That's fair that makes sense tho with him being from overseas and needing someone from the states to solidify him in the culture but still stand by it does more bad then good to your brand outside of rare instances

Jack Deuce 02-15-2017 07:56 PM

It can make sense, but only if you're doing it on a large platform. So for example, it may not make sense to battle DNA on no name league #7, but beating DNA on Smack may actually prove profitable. The only platform this works on is URL, Don't Flop and maybeeee KOTD though

Scartown 02-15-2017 09:56 PM

Q Shinobi vs caustic.

That worked out well for almost everyone....

erfworm 02-16-2017 02:03 AM

Makes you look like a chump

Emancee 02-16-2017 02:05 AM

If you have the skills it is worth it. Most people overestimate their skills though.

djpompey 02-16-2017 02:12 AM

It's likely that the vast majority of these cases we will never know about. Whether you should ever need to invest in getting a name might depend on whether you are working with an organizer willing to invest in you if you show you're ready.

I would use this rule of thumb: If you invest in matches at all, only invest in small jumps in status - matches that don't raise too many eyebrows. If you invest in huge leaps it tends to be a bad look no matter the outcome.

The match much be credible.

Laugh N' Stalk 02-16-2017 04:12 AM

It depends on the willingness of the vet.

I can speak from personal experience that I paid Caddy for a battle years ago. He showed up, had original stuff, promoted the battle and personally helped me afterwards in regards to getting onto KOTD and just advice in general.

But I do know other situations that don't turn out so well. I don't think Jeff & Farrell personally paid DNA & K-Shine to battle, but I'm sure the league to a hit to the wallet for it. Jeff & Farrell did great and NWX never promoted it or mentioned it once.

Some vets are just better people about that type of thing.

RandallFlagg 02-16-2017 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeWaltonisGoat (Post 714290)
That's fair that makes sense tho with him being from overseas and needing someone from the states to solidify him in the culture but still stand by it does more bad then good to your brand outside of rare instances

I agree more often than not it's a bad look. That battle is such a shining exception as it legitimized Shotty which in turn legitimized all of the British battle rap. Had Shotty not paid to battle Diz Dont flop would have flopped years ago without Arsonal vs Shotty.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Laugh N' Stalk (Post 714345)
It depends on the willingness of the vet.

I can speak from personal experience that I paid Caddy for a battle years ago. He showed up, had original stuff, promoted the battle and personally helped me afterwards in regards to getting onto KOTD and just advice in general

That's interesting. If you don't mind me asking how did that transpire? Did you just out of the blue hit Caddy up on facebook and offer him x amount of dollars to battle you? Was the league privy to the fact you paid him to accept? Do you feel you'd be more accepted as battle rapper as opposed to a battlerap personality if you had moved differently? Did you pay Joe Cutter as well?

Just curious. Not trying to be malicious.

Edit: Also do you have any knowledge of other instances of established battlers being paid by up and comers?

Solace254 02-16-2017 02:35 PM

Shit is interesting as fuck to hear about. I completely forgot about shotty doing that. It seems only certain vets do this though. I remember a Bigg K battle that took place in a school gym which was actually pretty hilarious given the entire scenario. I guess it's a rare occurence in which there are way too many variables to say with absolute certainty that it does or doesn't work. Still think Danny Myers is an idiot though.

LukeWaltonisGoat 02-16-2017 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solace254 (Post 714383)
Still think Danny Myers is an idiot though.

"I took your 12 stacks and battled you when I wanted to nigga
Aye Suge that's how you do a pocket check without touchin the nigga"

Battle was over after that he really 3-0'd Danny's life in 2 bars and to make it worse he paid 12k and hurt his stock twice.. Damn near got plugged and the battle was trash

averagejoe 02-16-2017 04:40 PM

if battles were generally judged id say no cuz ur buying ur way to sumthin u dont deserve

but hey if it works for both people why not!

Tyren 02-16-2017 06:18 PM

If it becomes public knowledge it does more harm than good... the better look would be to put up money " ill put up 5k winner takes all vs any vet on kotd!" Create a narrative

Laugh N' Stalk 02-21-2017 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandallFlagg (Post 714351)
That's interesting. If you don't mind me asking how did that transpire? Did you just out of the blue hit Caddy up on facebook and offer him x amount of dollars to battle you? Was the league privy to the fact you paid him to accept? Do you feel you'd be more accepted as battle rapper as opposed to a battlerap personality if you had moved differently? Did you pay Joe Cutter as well?

The league, Power & Respect, hit up Ron and offered me as an opponent. He gave them a price, and the league asked me if I would pay half. I had been battling in backyards for about a year, so I said of course. Come day of the battle, the money for Ron wasnt there on the leagues end. Ron knew of our agreement and when he saw me at the ATM pulling out the rest of his fee, he said he respected me and offered to buy my dinner.

After that he came back to Fresno to perform a show with Dan, so Esem and I went to say hi to him. He asked if KOTD had hit me up yet and I said no. He pulled out his phone and texted Lush or Malathion or SOMEONE cause I got offered a PY a couple weeks later per his suggestion.

I feel like I wouldnt be respected as a battler, personality, anything, if it wasnt for Ron. I cant imagine where things couldve possibly gone without him. Probably more sideways or diagonal than upwards. I did not pay Cutter and thankfully have not had to pay a league/battler since then, besides a $50 KOTD tryout fee in 2013 (and the occasional travel expense, which is sometimes covered as well)

Emancee 02-21-2017 11:56 AM

It's like going all in at poker. Worth the risk if you have the cards to back it up...

vokab206 02-21-2017 01:49 PM

I've paid for a venue to help make a GZ event happen here in Seattle and as a result I got a battle for it. I've been offered money to battle people but honestly I won't do it. It's a hobby and I'd rather take that money and use it for my family's needs. Not to get a few thousand views on a video.

vokab206 02-21-2017 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laugh N' Stalk (Post 715081)
The league, Power & Respect, hit up Ron and offered me as an opponent. He gave them a price, and the league asked me if I would pay half. I had been battling in backyards for about a year, so I said of course. Come day of the battle, the money for Ron wasnt there on the leagues end. Ron knew of our agreement and when he saw me at the ATM pulling out the rest of his fee, he said he respected me and offered to buy my dinner.

After that he came back to Fresno to perform a show with Dan, so Esem and I went to say hi to him. He asked if KOTD had hit me up yet and I said no. He pulled out his phone and texted Lush or Malathion or SOMEONE cause I got offered a PY a couple weeks later per his suggestion.

I feel like I wouldnt be respected as a battler, personality, anything, if it wasnt for Ron. I cant imagine where things couldve possibly gone without him. Probably more sideways or diagonal than upwards. I did not pay Cutter and thankfully have not had to pay a league/battler since then, besides a $50 KOTD tryout fee in 2013 (and the occasional travel expense, which is sometimes covered as well)

Wow. That's a great story! real talk.

RickyProehl 02-21-2017 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scartown (Post 714308)
Q Shinobi vs caustic.

That worked out well for almost everyone....

Came in to say this... led to caustics best performance.

ghettonetics 02-21-2017 04:50 PM

Why the fuck not, op

Solace254 02-21-2017 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghettonetics (Post 715137)
Why the fuck not, op

That's exactly what I'm asking. Is it a goodlook and why? Kind of the point of this thread...

After hearing stories and thoughts, I'm gonna say as long as it is benificial to the battler and isn't widely publicized, then yeah. Otherwise you get the Danny Myers look.

Scartown 02-21-2017 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickyProehl (Post 715124)
Came in to say this... led to caustics best performance.

Tru enough

And Q's been on a roll after...... Oh wait


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