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Does it bother you when battle rap seems a little disassociated with hiphop?


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Old 01-22-2016, 12:39 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by KBomb View Post
@6000GP same sort of thing, not trying to attack anyone or start a fight, genuine question

How much of ones credibility as a rapper do you think stems from their ties to the traditional cultural aspects of hip hop? Like, from your personal perspective, do you rate an individual as a rapper based more on their technical ability, like delivery, flow, structure, rhyme schemes, ability to "rap", etc, or does it come more from their image/persona they project? If an upper middle class rapper displayed above average ability from a technical standpoint, and didn't make an attempt to appropriate the culture from a content standpoint (i.e. rap about the hood when they've never experienced it), would you rate that individual as talented? Or is it as much about their background and experience as it relates to traditional hip hop? If that makes sense
Fair question. I'm not really here to police things, I'm just here to talk shit on the net... I trust that most people have honestly innocuous intentions when they take part in a culture, hobby, or past-time. That is to say, they're mostly doing it because they think its fun or entertaining, and that's dope, imo. My problem is with people who deliberately try to undermine the traditions or usurp the customs and observations of a culture that they don't identify with, while at the same time practice hate or hold contempt for the people who actually live in and with that culture.

So, to answer your question, credibility comes from being yourself, imo. I don't rate technical ability, AT ALL, when it comes to self-expression. Delivery, flow, structure, etc.. those terms don't matter to me. Not to sound corny, but the act of rapping, beat or no beat, really is a literary and performance art, and as such, creativity trumps all of that. There's kinda an analog or primer for what rapping is or what it should sound like, and it's not a science, but you can kinda tell when something just isn't appealing to your sensibilities. Image and persona do matter, but it's still important to be yourself. Look at Fresco's last battle.. Dude was rapping about fantastical things, but he was more himself than I've ever seen. Never seen dude more comfortable.

Last edited by 6000GP; 01-22-2016 at 12:42 AM.
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Old 01-22-2016, 12:42 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by 6000GP View Post
Fair question. I'm not really here to police things, I'm just here to talk shit on the net... I trust that most people have honestly innocuous intentions when they take part in a culture, hobby, or past-time. That is to say, they're mostly doing it because they think its fun or entertaining, and that's dope, imo. My problem is with people who deliberately try to undermine the traditions or usurp the customs and observations of a culture that they don't identify with, while at the same time practice hate or hold contempt for the people who actually live in and with that culture.

So, to answer your question, credibility comes from being yourself, imo. I don't rate technical ability, AT ALL, when it comes to self-expression. Delivery, flow, structure, etc.. those terms don't matter to me. Not to sound corny, but the act of rapping, beat or no beat, really is a literary and performance art, and as such, creativity trumps all of that. There's kinda an analog type primer for what rapping is, and it's not a science, but you can kinda tell when something just isn't appealing to your sensibilities. Image and persona do matter, but it's still important to be yourself. Look at Fresco's last battle.. Dude was rapping about fantastical things, but he was more himself than I've ever seen. Never seen dude more comfortable.
Fair enough man, I definitely see your point. Don't remember where the quote came from, but it echos what I think you're getting at, some politician said something along the lines of "I couldn't define pornography if you asked me to, but I know it when I see it"
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Old 01-22-2016, 01:30 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by versesmc View Post
As long as people are original, know their history and support their own culture, I'm good. It becomes stagnant when everyone is copying each other. Even Jamaican DJs and MCs always strived for originality while spitting over the same riddims and plenty are easily identifiable just because of their originality. I feel that can only be said for a select few in battle rap as a lot are just copying other's styles instead of creating their own or just rapping. Battle rap has evolved into gangster slam poetry without even needing to rap most of the time. Fans are also to blame because many dig these clones and don't care about the history or originality.
I was thinking about this too. Which ones do people think are hurting (or not hurting) battling more or at least dissociating it more from hip hop, the ones who don't really rap and do more of a stand up or poetry type of performance, or the ones who rap but with no originality and individuality at all and just follow the same exact formula everyone else does?

Personally I'm not really sure and would love to hear peoples takes on this. The ones who are not really rapping would seem like the obvious answer, but is it any more hip hop if you are just copying what others are doing?

This is also coming from a 21-year old Finnish kid with no real ties to the culture other than by just following it, so there might be a lot I'm missing here. But from my understanding originality has always been essential in hip hop, and since it's something I value highly in everything, I might have to go with the ones who are not rapping that much, even if it's disassociating battling a little more from its roots. At least they stand out and I am entertainted by them, and it also opens the doors for a whole other demographic to engage in it.

This is derailing a bit now, but let's take someone like Harry Baker for example. He seems very aware of the fact that he's not the greatest rapper, but he's really good at what he does and shows real respect for the culture, has clearly been following it for a long time and has referenced it multiple times in his poetry before he even started battling. I think he is a great addition to the scene, but would he even be battling if people were more strict about the rapping aspect of it?

Some might say that battlers like him are the reason battling is disassociating more from hip hop, and they maybe right, but I think it's a price we can pay in order to make the scene more versatile. But then again my background is not deeply rooted in the culture, so I'm not that affected by it distancing itself from its history. I still think that it's just necessary evolvement in order for the culture to stay alive. And who knows, maybe in the future the more stand up and poetry type of battling will distance itself from battle rap and evolve into a whole new thing, and rap battles will be stricly about just rapping again.

So in conclusion I'm not really bothered by battle rap being a little disassociated with hip hop if the people involved still respect the art form that seems to be evolving into a bit of its own thing.

Last edited by dog; 01-22-2016 at 01:33 AM.
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Old 01-22-2016, 02:17 AM   #84
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Disagree with 6000 - who probably only has an issue because it is KOTD lol. Here are six trailers by six different leagues that use non-hip hop music. I know there are tons more.
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Old 01-22-2016, 02:38 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Blaze Won View Post
I've always compared battling to hiphop as the dunk contest to the NBA
Its cool if you're really good at it, its flashy and there's always a market and people to watch...

But a slam dunk trophy is and will never be as sacred as winning a ring...
There are a LOT of people who do dunk competitions and don't play pro basketball or excel in the pros...

But Battling is still contributed to hiphop even tho some of most of the participants don't participate in making music. Without the hiphop culture, battling would be "Yo Mama." It contains elements of hiphop.

Just like with basketball, the slam dunk contest contains elements of basketball...but without basketball there is no slam dunk comp. Even tho you don't have to be a great basketball player to be good at dunking.

hope that makes sense
This is possibly the best comparison I've ever witnessed, especially in its simplicity/directness.
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Now that I think about it, I think I'd rather someone run up on me with a pistol than a dick beater. A pistol somehow sounds less terrifying.
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Old 01-22-2016, 03:17 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by rogermellie View Post
I think that mentality mostly comes from racism and classism tbh.
How so?
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Originally Posted by ux9 u so fine View Post
I'd be like

I got 4 more bars hold on ..

then rap a whole 16
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Old 01-22-2016, 03:20 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by 6000GP View Post
Wanna give ron the benefit of the doubt, but I've seen that sentiment before...

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t680711/

"Since other people have stolen so many of White mans inventions against us, maybe we should do the same with them? It could also help to reach some of our youth currently lost in the Black Hip Hop world. Its a place where a lot of White kids spend their time, without real pride or representation. Maybe they could use something to boost their pride? I would say that today, among Western youth who are so indoctrinated into the Black music world, we should infiltrate it, and let Whites have something within that they can identify with. No matter how much negroid Rap is, I think its vital in order to get a hold of the lost white youth. If Raps cool at the moment, thats what all kids will mimic. And rappers are mostly black. Kids will mimic what ever is cool.

When white kids turn on their TV, all they see a bunch of "Cool, tough, hard" Blacks who doesnt take crap from anyone. We need some Cool, tough and hard Whites that these kids can look up to, cause with the current White idols, our kids will become so SOFT they will be a piece of cake for Blacks in the schoolyard.

Its gonna be impossible to reach young White youth with Underground White Pride rock/punk genres. We need to infiltrate the mainstream."
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Originally Posted by ux9 u so fine View Post
I'd be like

I got 4 more bars hold on ..

then rap a whole 16
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Old 01-22-2016, 03:24 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by rogermellie View Post
I actually thought Ron's post was more based on other people's perceptions so I wasn't meaning to accuse him of being racist or classist just that that whole "beat them at their own game" thing comes from that imo.
Wow though, that stormfront post is fucking ridiculous, it almost sounds like the setup to an episode of a comedy.
Beating rappers/hip hop artists at their own game as a graphic artist/comedian who doesn't make music. This whole racism/classism thing is waaay left field of what I was saying, but I can see now how I could've been mistranslated.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ux9 u so fine View Post
I'd be like

I got 4 more bars hold on ..

then rap a whole 16

Last edited by RonRon da Dong; 01-22-2016 at 03:29 AM.
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Old 01-22-2016, 04:06 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by RonRon da Dong View Post
Didn't mean that as an indictment on u, bruh, my bad if it seemed that way. I fux witcha and respect ur talents. I was just saying I've seen that kinda rhetoric before..
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Old 01-22-2016, 04:17 AM   #90
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it bothers me that 6000gp posts
idk about the rest
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Old 01-22-2016, 06:59 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Profess View Post
I hear ya, and I was kidding about the music thing. There was a "punk" track he used awhile back that was crazy can't recall the title but I actually threw that on a playlist and listened to it every morning for awhile. Think it was from the event where bender and the saurus battled on the beach afterwards.
naw ur thinking of the phoenix event....the song was everyday i rise by murder city devils, theyre a cool band!!!

EDIT: i only remember this cuz i just watched bigg k vs b magic like a week ago haha
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Old 01-22-2016, 07:44 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by 6000GP View Post
Fair question. I'm not really here to police things, I'm just here to talk shit on the net... I trust that most people have honestly innocuous intentions when they take part in a culture, hobby, or past-time. That is to say, they're mostly doing it because they think its fun or entertaining, and that's dope, imo. My problem is with people who deliberately try to undermine the traditions or usurp the customs and observations of a culture that they don't identify with, while at the same time practice hate or hold contempt for the people who actually live in and with that culture.
Damn man, on point af. Let's keep it a buck for a sec. I would rep if I could, homie.
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Old 01-22-2016, 08:20 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by 6000GP View Post
So, to answer your question, credibility comes from being yourself, imo. I don't rate technical ability, AT ALL, when it comes to self-expression. Delivery, flow, structure, etc.. those terms don't matter to me. Not to sound corny, but the act of rapping, beat or no beat, really is a literary and performance art, and as such, creativity trumps all of that. There's kinda an analog or primer for what rapping is or what it should sound like, and it's not a science, but you can kinda tell when something just isn't appealing to your sensibilities. Image and persona do matter, but it's still important to be yourself. Look at Fresco's last battle.. Dude was rapping about fantastical things, but he was more himself than I've ever seen. Never seen dude more comfortable.
seriously tho.....this is what ive been trying to tell a lot of ppl for years, u can tell when a rapper is not natural...just be urself..this is why i like chedda cheese for example haha, that dude is unapologetically himself at all times, and he also has an appreciation and talent for the actual art of rapping
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Old 01-22-2016, 05:24 PM   #94
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Disagree with 6000 - who probably only has an issue because it is KOTD lol. Here are six trailers by six different leagues that use non-hip hop music. I know there are tons more.
lol luke wit da facts
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Old 01-22-2016, 05:48 PM   #95
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Wait 6000 lol u really think white supremacists are actively trying to infiltrate battle rap?

LOOOOOOL
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Old 01-22-2016, 05:52 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Luke View Post
Wait 6000 lol u really think white supremacists are actively trying to infiltrate battle rap?

LOOOOOOL
Well, I would argue that his theory is completely foundless

But


Mark the managers rounds in particular on this 1

I'll give caddy the benefit of the doubt
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Originally Posted by ux9 u so fine View Post
I'd be like

I got 4 more bars hold on ..

then rap a whole 16

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Old 01-22-2016, 08:42 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by 6000GP View Post
Didn't mean that as an indictment on u, bruh, my bad if it seemed that way. I fux witcha and respect ur talents. I was just saying I've seen that kinda rhetoric before..
I appreciate you clearing that up, and to an extent, I can see your point.
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Originally Posted by ux9 u so fine View Post
I'd be like

I got 4 more bars hold on ..

then rap a whole 16
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Old 01-22-2016, 08:44 PM   #98
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