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Old 10-15-2015, 09:08 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Water Mage View Post
debate me on skype bro, I will school u

box me in the ring bro, I will vanquish u

I speak three languages and im learning a 4th
I speak 3 languages, so you got me there. But I can guarantee you I am more intelligent than you (I'm 20 ftr), as I have never used 'black privilege' as a concept.

I also don't want to see you on skype, forgive me if it's not obvious why.
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Old 10-15-2015, 09:11 AM   #42
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I speak 3 languages, so you got me there. But I can guarantee you I am more intelligent than you (I'm 20 ftr), as I have never used 'black privilege' as a concept.

I also don't want to see you on skype, forgive me if it's not obvious why.
But if you guys skyped with your shirts off, it would prove who's the real man
just saying.....
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Old 10-15-2015, 09:25 AM   #43
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Unhappy

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Originally Posted by Seanzo View Post
Playing social games on message boards where you troll and try to catch people was something I did between the ages of 13 and 16; it's really sad you do it now.
I spend .000000000005% of my time doing such things, and when I do indulge in such games, I am bored at work, and too mentally tired to continue my relentless pursuit of knowledge

The fact that you would dwell on what I do .000000005% shows how petty you are and how far you will reach to try to impugn my argument by ad hominem attacks.

Also, as childish as those games are, what's worse, indulging in them and having a good chuckle, or becoming subject in such games, taking them seriously, and spewing negative emotions forth as you have done?

I mean, if we really want to go there, I might ask why you, a rational adult is so emotional over something so childish, anyway?

Why so negative over such paltry matters? And why take it all so seriously

Another tendency of yours I cold scrutinize, why do you take things that are said in jest so seriously, yet you fail to take seriously the logic embedded in what I am doing? Anti and CBA (or whatever) are more astute or less emtional than you, and they were able to follow

I will believe you are logical when you exercise logic

and if you beat me at my own game, I will concede.

But so far you are basically throwing a tantrum and creating a negative environment

You have a lot of aggression, for this reason before I have suggested that I teach you the art of pugilism next time I am in Calgary

You know, we are fellow countrymen, and I admit I was being a dick, and I caught myself. I offered an olive branch, and you tried to bite it off and my hand, frothing at the mouth... I say this with complete sincerity, with none of the asshole-ish vibe that sometimes creeps into my posts: JAH BLESS!
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Old 10-15-2015, 09:28 AM   #44
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You don't have to answer, but have psychedelics played any role in finding that level?
Yes but meditation also as well as the philosophies of ASIA

Anti, you are a gentleman and a scholar. When I establish the first battle rap think tank, I would like to offer you a spot.
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Old 10-15-2015, 09:29 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
I speak 3 languages, so you got me there. But I can guarantee you I am more intelligent than you (I'm 20 ftr), as I have never used 'black privilege' as a concept.

I also don't want to see you on skype, forgive me if it's not obvious why.
let's take a look at your argument:

I have never used the term "black privilege"

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therefore I am more intelligent than you
-------


This is not a logical thing to say, and smart people do not think like that.

I think that we lack sufficient evidence to decide who is more intelligent and whether or not "intelligence" is a unitary construct is debatable. I suspect that there are far more dimensions to intelligence than people often assume, and perhaps you are more intelligent than I in some ways, and I am more intelligent in other ways.

This is the way I think.

JAHBLESS

Last edited by Water Mage; 10-15-2015 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 10-15-2015, 01:18 PM   #46
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Haha, for a logician you sure became emotional over all of this.
See, this is why I write shit like this, half of it is well-thought out, half of it is trolling, and you never know when I am being sincere or not. This type of quasi-trolling reveals the true colors of people-- Until now, you had a well-deserved reputation for taking the high road, now you have revealed your true colors as a vindictive child throwing a tantrum and hurling ad hominems and appeals to authority.

"I HAVE A MASTERS DEGREE IN LOGIC SO I AM RIGHT!" - Says the logician as he makes an appeal to authority, and then proceeds to make ad hominems.

It's weird, for some reason you feel compelled to argue with me using ad hominems, straw man fallacies, etc.

I was classy, saying, "look, sorry for being a dick, I actually like you" you know, that's just a friendly thing to say, and you turn around and say "I don't give a fuck if you like me!!! Fuck your mother!".....................

Seanzo, (Illmac's voice) You acting like a little bitch right now!



Seanzo, you have to realize I have NOTHING invested in my online reputation, it gives me to say whatever I please at leisure, and I have nothing to lose.

You on the other hand, just made yourself look bad.

And if you're a logician then my line of thinking should not be so foreign to you, but either it is, or you are (for some reason) too salty / emotional to hone in on my way of thinking.

Chill out man, jeez you're so negative and angry lol
When did I say I was right because I have a Master's? The point I was making is I understand formal logic, and that I'm not engaging in a debate where I structure arguments with strict logic because it's a message board, you dweeb.

Also, did you really accuse me of a straw man? Jesus Christ, do you read about a concept and then immediately start using it? Where did I straw man you? Also, haven't you now made assumptions about my understanding of logic and said how I feel, argue, what I'm trying to say, just to make it easier for you to rant? Now that's a straw man, you dweeb. My point here has never been that you're wrong because you're a weirdo; it's that you're a fucking weirdo.

You're really transparent and still the same dude who made those awkward videos of himself saying "nigga" in a wizard hat.
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Hell yeah, about to smoke some weed from my special gandalf replica pipe and watch this
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and jewish people dont eat beef so ur definitely not right on that 1
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Old 10-15-2015, 03:22 PM   #47
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Also, did you really accuse me of a straw man?.
Stop acting like I just learned about logical fallacies yesterday, I first studied them in 2005 as a freshman. Your dependence on ad hominems is really unbecoming. I don't expect you to be overly conscious the rules of formal logic, but when you start to nitpick my arguments and then complain when I start scrutinizing the logic of your own counter-arguments, that's when I will begin to hold you to your own standards.

Also, while there's no need to apply rigorous analysis of logic to a message board, I think we can all agree that the constant litany of ad hominems you spew is both disagreeable and a waste of emotion. Why are you so salty anyway? Read some of your posts out loud, they sound really pissy lol.

As for making strawman, Sure you did make one. Let me explain how you made it:

I never argued that "whites are not given a fair chance in hip hop" Which is more or less what you seem to feel my OP meant... You took my thread title and you created your own interpretation of what exactly I meant by that. You somehow took it to mean that "whites have a disadvantage at being accepted in the industry, and then you cited some examples that disprove YOUR INTERPRETATION of what I said, rather than what I actually meant.

You often do this. You intentionally misintrepret what I say, grossly distorting it to a thesis that is much easier to impugn, and then you refute an argument I did not make, all the while, spewing rapid ad hominems against me.

I already told you that the OP was an exercise in reductio ad absurdum, so if you know what that means, then you should know that taking what I said at face value and or taking it seriously, and attempting to refute it in that mode is.... in itself a strawman! You strawmanned me on multiple levels

Again, I do not know why you are being so salty, aggressive and insulting. I stopped being a dick a while ago, and attempted to be amicable.



"

Last edited by Water Mage; 10-15-2015 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 10-15-2015, 03:32 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Water Mage View Post
Stop acting like I just learned about logical fallacies yesterday, I first studied them in 2005 as a freshman. Your dependence on ad hominems is really unbecoming. I don't expect you to be overly conscious the rules of formal logic, but when you start to nitpick my arguments and then complain when I start scrutinizing the logic of your own counter-arguments, that's when I will begin to hold you to your own standards.

Also, while there's no need to apply rigorous analysis of logic to a message board, I think we can all agree that the constant litany of ad hominems you spew is both disagreeable and a waste of emotion. Why are you so salty anyway? Read some of your posts out loud, they sound really pissy lol.

As for making strawman, Sure you did make one. Let me explain how you made it:

I never argued that "whites are not given a fair chance in hip hop".. You took my thread title and you created your own interpretation of what exactly I meant by that. You somehow took it to mean that "whites have a disadvantage at being accepted in the industry, and then you cited some examples that disprove YOUR INTERPRETATION of what I said, rather than what I actually meant.

You often do this. You intentionally misintrepret what I say, grossly distorting it to a thesis that is much easier to impugn, and then you refute an argument I did not make.

Again, I do not know why you are being so salty, aggressive and insulting. I stopped being a dick a while ago, and attempted to be amicable.



"
I'm not reading this post; quick skim, but you're repetitive and dumb.

I got the point of your first post and decided to throw examples out how white privilege still exists in hip hop to shut down arguments about white privilege and let people know I'd be aggressive towards it so it didn't turn into a flame war. In fact, I moved it into the Hall of Shame for that purpose as well. Gotta remember that outside of being smarter than you, I also get people better than you do. I then insulted you for trying to imply you were doing something intelligent and trying to talk about my lack of logic when you were completely out to lunch. That had nothing to do with the original point; it had everything to do with how fucking weird you are as a person.

I smacked away your olive branch because offering an olive branch and condescension is some strange type of bull shit that only a socially inept moron would see as a good idea.

If you ever come up and talk to me in person, which I know you will never do, and offer this type of condescension, I will mock the shit out of you. You can take peyote and train in martial arts for a life time but it still won't help you with the fact you're a weirdo who doesn't understand human beings and thus is always at an extreme disadvantage when it comes to arguing with them.

And your mother sucks diiiiiick.
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Its called battle rap, not battle skin.
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Hell yeah, about to smoke some weed from my special gandalf replica pipe and watch this
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and jewish people dont eat beef so ur definitely not right on that 1
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Old 10-15-2015, 03:38 PM   #49
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If I hadn't seen the Water Mage video I'd assume this was from a Fresco alt account
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Old 10-15-2015, 03:39 PM   #50
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IM NOT READING!! UR DUMB - Seanzo

Alright then. Well, You completely missed the point of the OP. Anti and other more astute minds got it, though
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Old 10-15-2015, 03:39 PM   #51
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If I hadn't seen the Water Mage video I'd assume this was from a Fresco alt account
Why do you say that?
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Old 10-15-2015, 03:45 PM   #52
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You also come here nowadays with this bull shit "I just came back from 6 months of meditation in Tibet" attitude as if we were somehow waiting for the return of Water Mage and his wisdom. It's condescending preachy bull shit, and it's just another example of how you're still lacking in self-awareness. Years of being mocked online and you still don't get it.

We don't await your return; you can't discuss things with other people without being incredibly frustrating because you're still going through your teen angst "I'm so weird" phase as an adult. All your experience is just a practice in self-delusion and moving away from actually getting the fact you're not fucking special, Mage. You're just a typical angst-ridden teen who wants his failures with people put down to the problems other people have.
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Its called battle rap, not battle skin.
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Hell yeah, about to smoke some weed from my special gandalf replica pipe and watch this
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and jewish people dont eat beef so ur definitely not right on that 1
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Old 10-15-2015, 03:46 PM   #53
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Last thing I will say about Seanzo before I put him and all his negativity behind me

weird how he assumes he knows me based on a trolling alias and ridicules my character and my social skills...

Meanwhile, I am trying my best to be amicable (after a momentary lapse into douchiness) meanwhile he is foaming at the mouth spewing personal attacks : /
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Old 10-15-2015, 03:51 PM   #54
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You also come here nowadays with this bull shit "I just came back from 6 months of meditation in Tibet" attitude as if we were somehow waiting for the return of Water Mage and his wisdom. It's condescending preachy bull shit, and it's just another example of how you're still lacking in self-awareness. Years of being mocked online and you still don't get it.

We don't await your return; you can't discuss things with other people without being incredibly frustrating because you're still going through your teen angst "I'm so weird" phase as an adult. All your experience is just a practice in self-delusion and moving away from actually getting the fact you're not fucking special, Mage. You're just a typical angst-ridden teen who wants his failures with people put down to the problems other people have.

lmao.. dude.. When I reference my "spirituality" I am simply saying that I am trying not to be a douche and attack others. Its not preachy, its me catchiing myself when I act like a douche.

I am trying to be kinder, and man enough to admit when I am being rude or unkind, that's all. Only you would find a way to make that out to be a bad thing.

Man, thats a perfect example of how you twist everything about me into the worst possible spin... And its weird how much you brood about me, you act like you have known me for years, but actually you have never even met me...

Based on your posts, its almost as if this persona (or personas) I have presented on this forum have taken on a life of their own inside your mind


because "the weirdo" you talk about is a trolling persona.. its weird how you spend time psychoanalyzing a troll persona that I retired a long time ago.... Its even weirder that you feel such strong emotions towards a troll persona.


It is disturbing that you feel so strongly about a persona(s) and it is creepy that you talk about me like you know me very well on a personal level, dissecting my character as if we grew up together..

I am legitimately weirded out lol... Im out.

Last edited by Water Mage; 10-15-2015 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 10-15-2015, 03:58 PM   #55
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saltines snappin in here!
Hood to see you back.
This debating with fancy vocabulary is hilarious
Like a dick measuring contest between white guys there's no winners nobody is impressed tryin to one up the last guy with one thirty-sixth of a yard.

Y'all wack.
Saltines make me crack?
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Old 10-15-2015, 04:05 PM   #56
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lmao.. dude.. When I reference my "spirituality" I am simply saying that I am trying not to be a douche and attack others. Its not preachy, its me catchiing myself when I act like a douche.

I am trying to be kinder, and man enough to admit when I am being rude or unkind, that's all. Only you would find a way to make that out to be a bad thing.

Man, thats a perfect example of how you twist everything about me into the worst possible spin... And its weird how much you brood about me, you act like you have known me for years, but actually you have never even met me...

Based on your posts, its almost as if this persona (or personas) I have presented on this forum have taken on a life of their own inside your mind


because "the weirdo" you talk about is a trolling persona.. its weird how you spend time psychoanalyzing a troll persona that I retired a long time ago.... Its even weirder that you feel such strong emotions towards a troll persona.


It is disturbing that you feel so strongly about a persona(s) and it is creepy that you talk about me like you know me very well on a personal level...

I am legitimately weirded out lol... Im out.
It's not the troll persona; it's the pseudo intellectual douchebag behind the troll persona.
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Its called battle rap, not battle skin.
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Hell yeah, about to smoke some weed from my special gandalf replica pipe and watch this
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Originally Posted by SpecialOh;

and jewish people dont eat beef so ur definitely not right on that 1
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Old 10-15-2015, 04:07 PM   #57
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It's not the troll persona; it's the pseudo intellectual douchebag behind the troll persona.
I hope you feel better soon
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Old 10-15-2015, 04:14 PM   #58
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I hope you feel better soon
I just got a puppy. I'm pretty stoked.

You still have serious problems understanding human beings. I'd say I hope you find help for that, but I really don't see that as possible.
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Its called battle rap, not battle skin.
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Hell yeah, about to smoke some weed from my special gandalf replica pipe and watch this
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and jewish people dont eat beef so ur definitely not right on that 1
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Old 10-15-2015, 04:22 PM   #59
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I just got a puppy. I'm pretty stoked.

You still have serious problems understanding human beings. I'd say I hope you find help for that, but I really don't see that as possible.
Well, that's great. I would love to have a dog

I understand humans, you just don't understand me very well (And why would you? We have never met)
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Old 10-15-2015, 07:12 PM   #60
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get a room fags
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Old 10-15-2015, 07:17 PM   #61
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weird how he assumes he knows me based on a trolling alias and ridicules my character and my social skills...
/



did you just try and pull the "jk guys i was trolling the whole time im not actually a gigantic faggot i was just trolling!!" card?

trolls are supposed to be clever. ur just a faggot.
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Old 10-15-2015, 08:35 PM   #62
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Hood to see you back.
This debating with fancy vocabulary is hilarious
Like a dick measuring contest between white guys there's no winners nobody is impressed tryin to one up the last guy with one thirty-sixth of a yard.

Y'all wack.
Saltines make me crack?
lol i cant understand half the shit they saying

too many words
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Old 10-15-2015, 08:42 PM   #63
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lol i cant understand half the shit they saying

too many words
I agree, them boys are throwing liquid swords at each other
Shit's like the 6th Neo meeting the Architect
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Old 10-16-2015, 02:12 AM   #64
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lol i cant understand half the shit they saying

too many words
That's not a good look either jus sayin.
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Old 10-16-2015, 04:42 AM   #65
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did you just try and pull the "jk guys i was trolling the whole time im not actually a gigantic faggot i was just trolling!!" card?

trolls are supposed to be clever. ur just a faggot.
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You have no life, and u mad because I caught on to that
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Old 10-16-2015, 05:18 AM   #66
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That's not a good look either jus sayin.
sorry i only got a 9th grade edumacation
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Old 10-16-2015, 08:49 PM   #67
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mage i know youre just trolling but i hate the term black privlge because it doesnt exist and fuck you
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Old 10-17-2015, 06:53 AM   #68
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mage i know youre just trolling but i hate the term black privlge because it doesnt exist and fuck you



.... anyway.. don't take shit so seriously, EK

u missed the point of the thread, actually, but its okay

this thread just shows me how quickly people lose their rationality and become emotional.. And, well, didn't mean to offend / antagonize anyone.. Jah bless ; )

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Old 10-17-2015, 10:42 AM   #69
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Jah bless ; )

cast your wizard spells elsewhere you fucking slut.
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Old 10-17-2015, 05:22 PM   #70
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.... anyway.. don't take shit so seriously, EK

u missed the point of the thread, actually, but its okay

this thread just shows me how quickly people lose their rationality and become emotional.. And, well, didn't mean to offend / antagonize anyone.. Jah bless ; )
I don't take much seriously but black privledge one of the worst phrases to ever exist. I can't speak for anyone else but I'm "emotional" because to believe in black privledge is not rational and at the same time you're calling other people irrational. I generally think you're funny but I don't find this funny.

Edit: finally read the other pages, I see what you're getting at.

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Old 10-17-2015, 07:09 PM   #71
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I don't take much seriously but black privledge one of the worst phrases to ever exist. I can't speak for anyone else but I'm "emotional" because to believe in black privledge is not rational and at the same time you're calling other people irrational. I generally think you're funny but I don't find this funny.

Edit: finally read the other pages, I see what you're getting at.

"the black privilege" part was in bad taste, and really does not match the content or the spirit of the OP... I did it for the sake of click bait and to be polemical.. and I regret that decision.

my endgame is to extinguish the fires of racial divide and make people end the race debates... After all the verbiage has been burned down, the simple truth will remain... HATE IS WRONG, no matter who is doing the hating and why, love is the answer, no matter what.. Racism is not bad because its racism or because it is wielded by the powerful and priveledged, it is bad because it hateful and used to justify violence and denial of human rights and dignity... but above all, its wrong because its hateful..

I really dislike the "its impossible for me to be racist because it has no power behind it" argument and I was trying to attack that argument by a two prong approach, one prong was rational, the other absurdist parody fueled by a night of too much cough syrup for a bad cold...

Whatever one thinks about the "its impossible for non-whites to be racist" argument, one thing is certain, nothing good will come from that way of thinking, it will only continue to promote the divide..

Because if you boil that argument down, its nothing more than "an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth".. Time for us to move beyond old testament ethics because "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"


I don't care if anyone agrees with what I say, I am not sure if I agree with what I said in these pages...

But I do know one thing... LOVE is the ultimate truth, and much love to YOU EK, I say that as a fan of your battles and also some of your music too, I really love some of the vibes you had goin on in your songs.

Jah bless


Last edited by Water Mage; 10-17-2015 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 10-17-2015, 09:18 PM   #72
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water mage sucks
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Old 10-17-2015, 09:19 PM   #73
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i think this guy huffs air duster everyday
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Old 10-18-2015, 12:23 AM   #74
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After all the verbiage has been burned down, the simple truth will remain... HATE IS WRONG, no matter who is doing the hating and why, love is the answer, no matter what.. Racism is not bad because its racism or because it is wielded by the powerful and priveledged, it is bad because it hateful and used to justify violence and denial of human rights and dignity... but above all, its wrong because its hateful..


I fuck with what's written here and felt like highlighting it. That is all.
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Old 10-18-2015, 08:35 AM   #75
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Old 10-18-2015, 05:14 PM   #76
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In lay terms I think that @Water Mage's point is that white people should be able to get away with racist words in battle rap, and anyone that gets up in arms about this is participating in a double standard. The things is while that could make logical sense the world is not fair and it is absurd to think just because a rap battle is going on the real world completely stops.
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Old 10-19-2015, 06:24 AM   #77
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In lay terms I think that @Water Mage's point is that white people should be able to get away with racist words in battle rap, and anyone that gets up in arms about this is participating in a double standard. The things is while that could make logical sense the world is not fair and it is absurd to think just because a rap battle is going on the real world completely stops.
Well, I think racism should be done away with. Nobody should be racist, because it tends to sow seeds of division and hatred

But I don't like extreme political correctness (PC) either, because this also is divisive and sows the seeds of discord. Extreme PC actually causes more conflict (and hence disrespect) than it prevents IMO, and it contributes to the insanity of man by making them hone in too much on the words, rather than getting to the heart of the matter (love vs. hate)

We have to boil the issue down to "what's it gonna be fellas? Love or hate?" and we must stick with this mantra at all times. The second we lose sight of this all-important fact, we lose ourselves to delusion, madness, hate and that is why the perrenial race debates / PC debates (not to mention other hot button issues) are contributing to the conflict and division that is spreading like a wildfire all over this earth!

......To change the topic.. @Profess You are right in pointing out that I am trying to point out the double standards, specifically with the argument that it's okay for non-whites to be racist against whites because "there's no power behind it"

It seems very few people here are familiar with "reductio ad absurdum"-- It means that you take the structure of someone's logic and apply it to analogous case, with the intent to show the absurd conclusions one can come to following that logic.

If the case is truly analogous, then the technique is successful in rhetoric. @Anti, being an astute and sound, thinker, recognized that this was the nature of my argument and he questioned whether or not the case I offered is truly analogous. Anti was therefore the only one to challenge my OP in a fashion that is acceptable to the educated mind.

For example, if "having no power behind it" excuses an action, that means we can use the same argument and different cases to draw absurd conclusions:

-It's okay to slap someone in the face if there is no power behind it (not very much force and poses no threat to health)

-It's okay to threaten to kill someone (there's no power behind it, its just empty words, no power behind it)

-It's okay for a woman to hit a man (men have more physical prowess)

-It's impossible for women to discriminate against men, since men are said to have more power in society

-It's impossible for women to be sexist against men, since men are said to have more power in society

-It's okay bite rap lyrics (there's no power behind it, since nothing is taken and the original writer has power of copywrite)

-It's okay to piss on the subway (no power behind it, it won't do anything bad to anyone, piss is sterile)

-It's okay to punch your boss (there's no power behind it, because he has the authority and the ability to fire you)

-It's okay to pollute the environment (there's no power behind it, since the forces of nature are more powerful than us and, given enough time, the cosmos will always be able to regenerate)

Now if one or more of these cases are truly analogous, my reductio ad absurdum argument is valid.. I honestly don't know if they are

Secondly, people apply the situation on the macro-level to the micro-level. They assume that just because whites have more "power" on the macro-level that every white individually somehow has some kind of "power" that a non-white doesn't have... and that this white has the "power" to be effectively racist but the black does not. Non-whites say "my racism has no power"... Well, hatred DOES have power, it has destructive power and there are plenty of dead white bodies that show that anti-white racism does INDEED have power.

Basically I want to burn down all of these games people play with words and simplify things. Hating is wrong, period. It's wrong to hate, because hate always has victims, regardless of the power-dynamics at the macro-level. Even if you think your hatred doesn't have any victims, think again. Because the primary victim of the hate one feels is oneself, and by extension, those closest to that person.

The whole argument of "I can be racist because its not racist when I am a racist because whites were racist first" = no better than when kids are fighting and one kid says "he started it!"

Last edited by Water Mage; 10-19-2015 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 10-19-2015, 03:50 PM   #78
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If the case is truly analogous, then the technique is successful in rhetoric. @Anti, being an astute and sound, thinker, recognized that this was the nature of my argument and he questioned whether or not the case I offered is truly analogous. Anti was therefore the only one to challenge my OP in a fashion that is acceptable to the educated mind.
@Water Mage you have hurt my feelings by implying that I don't understand the true nature of your argument lol but seriously you can't have it both ways. Ie being a troll and also using "reductio ad absurdum" as a technique and expect to be be taken seriously. All that said, even if @Seanzo doesn't think you are smart, I still do.

On a side note. In your opinion, how similar is computer logic to say the logic used by someone like Socrates?
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Old 10-19-2015, 05:30 PM   #79
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@Water Mage you have hurt my feelings by implying that I don't understand the true nature of your argument lol but seriously you can't have it both ways. Ie being a troll and also using "reductio ad absurdum" as a technique and expect to be be taken seriously. All that said, even if @Seanzo doesn't think you are smart, I still do.

On a side note. In your opinion, how similar is computer logic to say the logic used by someone like Socrates?
Let me address your side note. I don't know anything about computer logic, except the binary nature of it. All I can say about that is, I try to think of things in terms of E prime (that means you don't assert that X is/is not Y", it seems like Aristotle, Socrates, Plato were really caught up in arguments using "this is / is not x" and that is / is not x" blah blah. To me that is binary structure of thinking and I (being a student of eastern philosophy moreseo than western) reject dualism, reject binary thinking because I think the binary processes are abstractions that computers or brains use to map a reality that is, at the fundamental level, non-dual. Thus, we are describing a map, rather than the territory itself (to paraphrase the semanticist Alfred Korzybski) This "map" or system of abstractions known as "language" is useful when attempting to buy groceries or warn someone about bad weather, but problematic when trying to do physics or philosophy.

I feel the need to point out that it was the books of Robert Anton Wilson that took me down that path, in order to not feel like a biter


I said Anti was the only one to challenge the OP in a way that is respectable to a mind trained in logic. As far as I am aware, you didn't challenge my OP, which is why I didn't include you in that category. You responded with rationality rather than emotion, so I salute you for that. As for whether you understand my argument or not, I wasn't sure, I didn't want to jump to conclusions. But I appreciated your post

One day some of these punks will learn the bludgeon of insolence is no match for the rapier of reason.

I am no vulcan, however. I don't care much for rationality, but if we are going to work within the (limited) arena of rationality we should at least act according to rational principles (something few men are capable of)

Rationality; a useful tool, but if we trap ourselves inside that level of consciousness it is a prison and it sterile. The universe is beyond "rationality" and irrationality"... And how could it be any other way? How else could the multitudes of forms come to be? The universe is not only weirder than we suppose, it is weirder than we can suppose... I forget who said that

Forgive the tangent, I just finished a meditation session and I have some heavy cosmic shit that will take years to work thru.

Jah Bless!

Last edited by Water Mage; 10-19-2015 at 05:50 PM.
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Old 10-19-2015, 06:19 PM   #80
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I feel the need to point out that it was the books of Robert Anton Wilson that took me down that path, in order to not feel like a biter
Never heard of Wilson, but after doing a quick search.. I see his name is mentioned along with David Icke, who also recently came up in a different conversation.
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