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Old 12-18-2018, 06:17 AM   #1
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Notes from #Bars by Ryan O'Leary

Get your copy at https://www.battlerapbook.com/

***the most contentious debate this book has started here surrounds the rise of Diz. More specifically, that the The Saurus v Illmac battle opened a lane for Diz. Because when those two icons clashed they exploded themselves (who said that??)

In responding to the question, what was it like being interviewed for this book..

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It was pretty cool. Knocked out the interview rather quickly, Ryan had some good questions and I tried to explain to the best of my ability what I'd witnessed both in the more contemporary era of battle rap in person, and also as a fan watching on YouTube.
I rate this book 9.7/10

I initially interpreted Phillip Drummond as being the architect of the fresh coast. Some of the bruv's in the thread expand on that, and other areas of debate.

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architect may be going a bit far. but he def hustled franco dvds nonstop and played a big role in drummonding up interest in the scene by having such a huge collection that u could by for $9.99!
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Not sure I'd say Phillip Drummond is the architect of the west coast. He was a key contributor but it wasn't just one person that makes the west coast great. It's a collection of people and I think Lush One is the guy who would be the CEO. Then you would have others who played key parts.
This book is an oral history so it is a collection of quotes from 100+ people in the battle rap community.

That video is the books author Ryan O'leary being interviewed by a rising star in the blogging game DME.
He states there that if Harvard ever teaches a course on battle rap, that he'd like this to be the textbook.
@god level added some more

Last edited by Profess; 12-31-2018 at 01:55 AM. Reason: discussion w/ others in thread
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Old 12-18-2018, 08:19 AM   #2
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man fuck i thought everybody been knew this

any other cliff notes?
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Old 12-18-2018, 05:35 PM   #3
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There is a discrepancy about how Phillip Drummond and Justice view his run at Scibble Jam. Drummond says that Justice bought a DVD package from him for 150$ to study the competition. Justice said he was able to get footage off a file sharing site.

I guess Justice primarily did Scribble to get a shot at a record deal.

It was noted that he had a multi sylabic style but not sure if the implication was that he took that to a next level. But it is pretty clea that he spoke fresh coast because he watched the game tapes.

I believe his wrc partner in Australia was 360 who is a legit recording artist in Australia. So I wonder if Scribble helped with that.
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Old 12-18-2018, 08:48 PM   #4
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I had always heard that justice bought the footage from Phillip Drummond. At that time, he had a much more extensive collection of footage than you could find online.
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Old 12-18-2018, 09:13 PM   #5
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BreezEvahflowin seems to have heavy involvement in the Viacom Era of battle rap. Starting with MTV and Direct Effect. The MTV format at first had battles of 3 people. And they narrowed that down to one on one battles. But BET's Freestyle Friday brought that to the next level. Jin is of of the first from Freestyle Friday to reach their Hall of Fame.


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Old 12-18-2018, 10:04 PM   #6
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The Swan vs Mook battle sounds pretty epic. That's the battle where Mook ended the free-style era. That battle happened in Detroit and was set up thru an alliance between Fight Klub and Proof.

The Detroit scene was known for the hip hop shop. That was put on by fashion designer Maurice Malone. Chris Webber and the fab 5 once visiting and Webber ended up battling Proof. Proof's punchline about their being no time outs here knocked him out
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:23 AM   #7
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I believe his wrc partner in Australia was 360 who is a legit recording artist in Australia. So I wonder if Scribble helped with that.
Nah 360 was partnered with Anecdote in the WRC. Him and Justice just teamed up for that battle vs Thesaurus & Madness.
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Old 12-20-2018, 05:53 AM   #8
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Eric Forman put up battles from SMACK DVD on youtube before URL had a youtube channel. Helping to popularize street battling on the internet.

Phillip Drummond is the architect of the fresh coast. He helped make it possible for heavy hitters from the Fresh Coast to make it to Scribble Jam and introduced a lot of the guys on the Fresh Coast.

An Oral History is an cool format. Is anyone else reading this?
Call me greedy but I want an entire 400+ page book just on the topic of the Fresh coast and or freestyle era.. I am interested in this book but I am just worried it won't go into enough detail since my interest in battle history is kinda narrow
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Old 12-20-2018, 04:00 PM   #9
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Call me greedy but I want an entire 400+ page book just on the topic of the Fresh coast and or freestyle era.. I am interested in this book but I am just worried it won't go into enough detail since my interest in battle history is kinda narrow
I'm about half-way through with this 130/260. And its up to the point of 2007 and starting to get into the 2007 WRC's. The book is an oral history so it is mostly quotes from the people that were there. I'll say the book doesn't lack detail. And I'll also say that a reasonable seasoned fan wouldn't be disappointed by this book.

I read your posts over the years and we've went back and forth a few times. So I'd say that you'll find something wrong with this book. I'm interested what it will be too.

What stands out about the book is the ability to weave the quotes together into a cohesive narrative. Props to the authors research and perspective.

All that said, I'd still recommend the book to you and most people reading this. and I'll go as far as saying that any omission you find will be cathartic and anything you think is obvious will also stroke your ego.
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Old 12-20-2018, 05:03 PM   #10
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There is a discrepancy about how Phillip Drummond and Justice view his run at Scibble Jam. Drummond says that Justice bought a DVD package from him for 150$ to study the competition. Justice said he was able to get footage off a file sharing site.

I guess Justice primarily did Scribble to get a shot at a record deal.

It was noted that he had a multi sylabic style but not sure if the implication was that he took that to a next level. But it is pretty clea that he spoke fresh coast because he watched the game tapes.

I believe his wrc partner in Australia was 360 who is a legit recording artist in Australia. So I wonder if Scribble helped with that.
Justice wasn't in wrc. Anecdote was 360s partner. Then prime and purpose we're another very strong team from Australia.
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Old 12-20-2018, 06:46 PM   #11
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Justice wasn't in wrc. Anecdote was 360s partner. Then prime and purpose we're another very strong team from Australia.
Funny you mention Australia having a few strong teams. As I'm reading this and hearing the cites were NY, LA, Detroit, Houston, London, Toronto, and Melbourne.

I'm thinking Melbourne is the weak link. But they had that old site gotbeef back in the day. Its actually not surprising. Do you follow there current leagues?

Side note- read that Diz didn't make LA finals (he blamed his partner) by entered in NY with Syanide. So the cities seemed to be loosely based.
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Old 12-21-2018, 04:02 AM   #12
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Salute my guy @Profess for holding down the forum. I always check his threads and this is another good one. Been my favorite poster for a minute, but he kept life in this board this past year. Merry Christmas y’all, and happy, prosperous new year

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Old 12-21-2018, 07:04 AM   #13
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@6000GP Thanks for the kind words. I have the discord open. Feel free to shoot me some tips. Newb in there

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Old 12-21-2018, 07:22 AM   #14
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The book talks about Spin the Mic 2006 in NY. The Saurus and Illmac both battled there. The Saurus battled a couple guys. However, Iron Solomon didn't battle at the event. But was around after the event got moved outside- after the fight broke out*. That is when they battled. So Iron had some written and The Saurus was gassed. So some people call it a calculated sneak attack. That might be harsh because Iron might have seen just seen it as an opportunity to battle a guy he (almost?) faced at a previous Scribble Jam.


The more I think about it- this is one of the top re-matches I'd like to see. It might be cool seeing it in NYC too @ARP ... Some under card ideas below


Mook vs Hollow
Lux vs Verb
Lux vs Day
Bigg K vs Fresco
Math vs Hollow

*Team The Saurus/ Illmac brings up that fight when battling Quest/ Marv in the WRC's the following year

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Old 12-21-2018, 07:38 AM   #15
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The book has QR codes that send you to the battles. It's a nice touch
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Old 12-21-2018, 08:52 AM   #16
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how'd this fool not hit me up as a source, i know everything
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Old 12-21-2018, 09:02 AM   #17
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The book talks about Spin the Mic 2006 in NY. The Saurus and Illmac both battled there. The Saurus battled a couple guys. However, Iron Solomon didn't battle at the event. But was around after the event got moved outside- after the fight broke out*. That is when they battled. So Iron had some written and The Saurus was gassed. So some people call it a calculated sneak attack. That might be harsh because Iron might have seen just seen it as an opportunity to battle a guy he (almost?) faced at a previous Scribble Jam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0l136rxoIo

The more I think about it- this is one of the top re-matches I'd like to see. It might be cool seeing it in NYC too @ARP ... Some under card ideas below


Mook vs Hollow
Lux vs Verb
Lux vs Day
Bigg K vs Fresco
Math vs Hollow

*Team The Saurus/ Illmac brings up that fight when battling Quest/ Marv in the WRC's the following year
i don't think iron approached pete like "hey, let's do this" knowing he had writtens and pete would be exhausted from freeing. i thought it was harry who realized the opportunity and pushed for it. not 100% on it, but i thought the idea was put forth and likely agreed upon earlier in the evening, then iron left and came back and they battled. can't remember if pete was already out vs illmac or not. but iron obv had hella writtens. can't fault him for always being prepared. but obv if he ambushed pete then he's a BAD BAD MAN. and pete still crushed it.

here's a funny ting or 2 about spin da mi:

- greg and pete shared a huge % of their lines/angles for one another earlier in the day driving around new york.

- the fight happened when rado (i think) battled quest. his line i believe was "and last week one detroit nigga already restin in peace" which didn't seem to phase quest. and then i believe someone in the maniac quad called proof a faggot and then quest ran at all of them solo. it was rad (not fighting or ruining an event, but mad respect to quest for that).

- presence was in the process of serving cyanide when the other fight broke out, which i think was between chicks. this shut the battle down and moved it to outside. presence, thinking the event was over, just left. he got dicked as he had a solid shot at winning.

- illmac got some 6 ft tall trophy that he couldn't' bring back on the plane. it was left in nyc at an RM users house who hosted. can't remember his name. don't think he ever got it back.

- this was most folks first intro to HOM as he destroyed the cyphers outside
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Old 12-21-2018, 09:07 AM   #18
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Phillip Drummond is the architect of the fresh coast. He helped make it possible for heavy hitters from the Fresh Coast to make it to Scribble Jam and introduced a lot of the guys on the Fresh Coast.
architect may be going a bit far. but he def hustled franco dvds nonstop and played a big role in drummonding up interest in the scene by having such a huge collection that u could by for $9.99!

mind games 1 was a dope event with lots of good battles. there's a dvd of it too. mind games 2 unfortunately was a huge flop. sucks, but shit happens.
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Old 12-21-2018, 09:12 AM   #19
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There is a discrepancy about how Phillip Drummond and Justice view his run at Scibble Jam. Drummond says that Justice bought a DVD package from him for 150$ to study the competition. Justice said he was able to get footage off a file sharing site.
there was more than enough footage online during this time for him to be influenced. if anything, id say illmac's 04 run is more similar to justice than random fresh coast videos of the time. okwerdz told me about justice before scribble and hyped him up saying he was gonna kill it. he was also the first person i ever heard mention pat stay too, way way back he was tellin me about that dude

idk what the debate between them is. justice denies buying $150 worth of footage? sounds like a battle fan more so than studying, but whatever.

also pretty sure elliot had his shit shared on soulseek sometimes. i probably had the biggest collection of freestyle battle footage out of anybody for years, including elliot, and i'd share my shit all the time on there. uploaded as much as i could to my YT account years back named battlesbro
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Old 12-21-2018, 10:28 AM   #20
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how'd this fool not hit me up as a source, i know everything
That's crazy, you're so approachable.
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It's a fact that The Saurus didn't back down and let Pat Stay be the alpha male and all of that has a FACTUAL basis in primate psychology.
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Old 12-21-2018, 10:31 AM   #21
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In all seriousness though, I always enjoy reading these behind the scenes stories from back in the day. Cool thread all round and I should probably get this book.
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It's a fact that The Saurus didn't back down and let Pat Stay be the alpha male and all of that has a FACTUAL basis in primate psychology.
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Old 12-21-2018, 10:33 AM   #22
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- the fight happened when rado (i think) battled quest. his line i believe was "and last week one detroit nigga already restin in peace" which didn't seem to phase quest. and then i believe someone in the maniac quad called proof a faggot and then quest ran at all of them solo. it was rad (not fighting or ruining an event, but mad respect to quest for that).
I was at that event, and left after the fight broke out. So I missed the Iron/ The Saurus battle outside. iirc Quest escalated the situation. That and the combination of the the book implicating him in stealing the WRC tapes in 2007. Dampens my opinion of Quest. I'm just finding out 11 years later that had I stayed around that I would have saw that battle. Part of the reason, I'd by hyped for a re-match. All that said, its a bit wack to shit on Quest based on conjecture and shoddy memories.
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Old 12-21-2018, 10:37 AM   #23
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In all seriousness though, I always enjoy reading these behind the scenes stories from back in the day. Cool thread all round and I should probably get this book.
It directed me to Mosh Jelton vs Johnny Storm because that was the first GT battle on Worldstar. Noted as being a battle that there wasn't even supposed to be a pretense that it was freestyle.

MAdd Illz explaining how Drect wanted to go one off dvd's and that he guided him to starting a league is interesting.

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Old 12-21-2018, 10:41 AM   #24
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there was more than enough footage online during this time for him to be influenced. if anything, id say illmac's 04 run is more similar to justice than random fresh coast videos of the time. okwerdz told me about justice before scribble and hyped him up saying he was gonna kill it. he was also the first person i ever heard mention pat stay too, way way back he was tellin me about that dude

idk what the debate between them is. justice denies buying $150 worth of footage? sounds like a battle fan more so than studying, but whatever.

also pretty sure elliot had his shit shared on soulseek sometimes. i probably had the biggest collection of freestyle battle footage out of anybody for years, including elliot, and i'd share my shit all the time on there. uploaded as much as i could to my YT account years back named battlesbro
The context is that some guys had an advantage because they were unknown. And the name guys (like The Saurus) were at a disadvantage because the guys battling them could do research on them.

So maybe Justice would downplay his prep, and PD would up play it. I have no idea if either guy is pushing an agenda.

So saying dude paid 150$ for the game tape of last season comes off as clowning him IMO
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Old 12-21-2018, 10:46 AM   #25
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architect may be going a bit far. but he def hustled franco dvds nonstop and played a big role in drummonding up interest in the scene by having such a huge collection that u could by for $9.99!

mind games 1 was a dope event with lots of good battles. there's a dvd of it too. mind games 2 unfortunately was a huge flop. sucks, but shit happens.

I've seen his name in the credits for this video. I've always liked the song- and I'm surprised that I am, sometimes. But aside from that I'd never heard of him. Sounds like you know him well...

Sounds like he brought together guys from different locations and helped carve out a region.
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Old 12-21-2018, 11:38 AM   #26
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I was at that event, and left after the fight broke out. So I missed the Iron/ The Saurus battle outside. iirc Quest escalated the situation. That and the combination of the the book implicating him in stealing the WRC tapes in 2007. Dampens my opinion of Quest. I'm just finding out 11 years later that had I stayed around that I would have saw that battle. Part of the reason, I'd by hyped for a re-match. All that said, its a bit wack to shit on Quest based on conjecture and shoddy memories.
i was also there. quest heard them call proof a faggot and ran off the stage at them. i'd say they escalated it.

drummond posted on the old boards a lot. he was constantly spamming his franco dvds nonstop. he threw some battles, helped make franco and bo-rat known early on, and shot tons of footage and helped make the fresh coast known. he beat dlor in a battle, produces music and sometimes raps under mc oompa loompa. check the willy wonka song with nocando, franco, thesaurus, etc.


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That's crazy, you're so approachable.
i am, mfer. this tough guy exterior is just to make sure i dont get picked on
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Old 12-21-2018, 11:40 AM   #27
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The context is that some guys had an advantage because they were unknown. And the name guys (like The Saurus) were at a disadvantage because the guys battling them could do research on them.

So maybe Justice would downplay his prep, and PD would up play it. I have no idea if either guy is pushing an agenda.

So saying dude paid 150$ for the game tape of last season comes off as clowning him IMO
word, paying $150 for battles is retarded, for sure. but scoping competition is fine/smart.
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Old 12-21-2018, 04:07 PM   #28
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Don't forget when Phillip Drummond entered at Brainstorm....Starts at 5 minutes.

I'll never forget him selling DVDs outside of BOTB. Dude hustled those. I got the Fresh Coast DVD. Nothing else.
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Old 12-21-2018, 11:25 PM   #29
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Talks about the Battle of the Bay and how that was a huge event. Mentions pt's 1&2.
This is where Dizaster and Hollow break out as the top stars of the platform. It is mentioned a few times how ever tho those two didn't succeed at the WRC's that they have had the last laugh.

It's said that when Illmac and The Saurus battled each other they exploded each other, and Diz is what found his way out of the wreckage. Diz battled The Saurus in a close battle they he edged. Shooting his into stardom


Hollow talks about how he takes battles based on strategy. Like when he decided to not battle in NY for a minute and go on a run in CA- pen and ph thought he didn't like them- when actually he just felt he had nothing to prove there. And with CA on the rise going on a streak there Pass, Ok, Illmac would help his stock.

Diz says that all history will remember is that Hollow battled Budden and that he battled Canibus.

Around the same time Lush appointed himself leader if the GT CA division. It is reported that he was in talks with both Madd Illz and Drect. However, it sounds like Madd Illz and Drect didn't communicate well.

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Old 12-21-2018, 11:27 PM   #30
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEY90vAn5_Q

Don't forget when Phillip Drummond entered at Brainstorm....Starts at 5 minutes.

I'll never forget him selling DVDs outside of BOTB. Dude hustled those. I got the Fresh Coast DVD. Nothing else.
Is Drummond the guy in the NYU sweatshirt?

Keep hearing this guys was hustling DVD's especially Franco DVD's.
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Old 12-22-2018, 09:31 AM   #31
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The Chapter on Grind time is interesting. But the WRC chapter seems to be where everything came from. Sounds like the story is the the WRC's brought everything together. Fell apart, then birthed 3 leagues. GT, KOTD, and DF. URL was birthed from GT. The Madd Illz, Drect, Lush-One and KAp KAllus stories are hard to follow. Seems like Drect should have just ran the whole thing, an if he could do it again then he be more of a leader. It keeps on being brought up that Mad Illz did lounge battles in Orlando, but it doesnt sound like he brought much to the table. There are a couple of money being stolen examples but there are also explanations for the thefts. First, Illz accused Lush of stealing money, but it sounds like Illz wanted tribute. It doesnt add up why Lush owed Illz 3000$ because it sounds like Lush funded the event where the profits came from. Also, Illz had his personal bank account tied into the youtube from GT. Some say he stole, Illz said he messed up with taxes.
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Old 12-22-2018, 10:55 AM   #32
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"It's said that when Illmac and The Saurus battled each other they exploded each other, and Diz is what found his way out of the wreckage. Diz battled The Saurus in a close battle they he edged. Shooting his into stardom"

LOL no

everyone agreed diz jerked thesaurus, that ol cock swallowing novelist

no idea what you mean by they exploded one another. are u talkin about spin the mic? all 3 dudes continued a rise in popularity after everything mentioned here. diz the most.
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Old 12-22-2018, 11:37 AM   #33
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"It's said that when Illmac and The Saurus battled each other they exploded each other, and Diz is what found his way out of the wreckage. Diz battled The Saurus in a close battle they he edged. Shooting his into stardom"

LOL no

everyone agreed diz jerked thesaurus, that ol cock swallowing novelist

no idea what you mean by they exploded one another. are u talkin about spin the mic? all 3 dudes continued a rise in popularity after everything mentioned here. diz the most.
It's not so much what I mean. Try and take it more like the notes I'm summarizing in this thread. Perhaps if you read the book you'd have a better idea of what I'm referring to. Do you plan or reading it?

When he says that illmac and the Saurus exploded each other, he is saying that those were the top two guys. And that they both killed each other a bit in a classic battle. Making room for Diz to come up.

I haven't watched Diz vs Saurus in years. IDK if it was judged. But it seems like you have a strong opinion on that one. Feel free to go into more detail.

I don't think anyone is saying that illmac v the Saurus ruined anyone's career. More like when telling a big story there have to be defining moments. And this is one of them.
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Old 12-22-2018, 11:45 AM   #34
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He gets into how the math v Trex (first URL battle) not first smack battle. First URL battle- those are Poison Pen's words. Played a big role in the demise of grind time and how their staff dropped the ball on that one.

The book makes a point of pointing out the URL just picked up the pieces of gt east. Similar to how KOTD got gt West.

Makes me wonder what year the smack DVDs stopped coming out. Iirc they started in 2002. The chapter mentions smack coming out of retirement.
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Old 12-22-2018, 03:07 PM   #35
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no i don't plan on reading some dork's summary of events i was present for a decade ago in a hobby i no longer care about

"When he says that illmac and the Saurus exploded each other, he is saying that those were the top two guys. And that they both killed each other a bit in a classic battle. Making room for Diz to come up."

right and that's not what happened lol and the way u wrote it makes it seem like u got the chronology mixed up but prob unintentional

diz battled pete before greg/pete and was already known. he was known before battling pete. shit, he'd already battled greg in GT before pete/greg. idk what the fuck this dude is talking about like after greg and pete bttled in GT, the smoke cleared with them exhausted and diz popping up when he was already active. shit he battled organik on the same card which had helllla hype behind it. sounds like revisionist history from a dude who wants to sell a cooler story
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Old 12-22-2018, 03:14 PM   #36
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"I don't think anyone is saying that illmac v the Saurus ruined anyone's career. More like when telling a big story there have to be defining moments. And this is one of them."

it wasn't tho. at least not in dizasters timeline. dude gained popularity on his own. but whatever. when the legend becomes the fact, print the legend.

if you want a real cool story, the night before sj05 battle, me and awk were laughing hysterically for like an hour about pass timbs that somehow folded over and rolled downward. i can remember big bri walking around with one with us both insulting them and laughing like morons.

idk if it shows on the official dvd, but the bootleg version that went around and is on YT from the crowd angle, u can see awk react during iron vs pass. i remember when iron said WHO THE FUCK HEARD OF TIMBALAND BOOTS THAT FOLD OVER? i 100% remember dying in the crowd. on the bootleg, u can see okwerdz kinda disappointedly throw his hands up and turn to the judge next to him and go, "i told him.."

lmao that still makes me laugh. that was a wild year fellas A WIIILD YEAR
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Old 12-22-2018, 03:43 PM   #37
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no i don't plan on reading some dork's summary of events i was present for a decade ago in a hobby i no longer care about

"When he says that illmac and the Saurus exploded each other, he is saying that those were the top two guys. And that they both killed each other a bit in a classic battle. Making room for Diz to come up."

right and that's not what happened lol and the way u wrote it makes it seem like u got the chronology mixed up but prob unintentional

diz battled pete before greg/pete and was already known. he was known before battling pete. shit, he'd already battled greg in GT before pete/greg. idk what the fuck this dude is talking about like after greg and pete bttled in GT, the smoke cleared with them exhausted and diz popping up when he was already active. shit he battled organik on the same card which had helllla hype behind it. sounds like revisionist history from a dude who wants to sell a cooler story
I think he's referring to their battle in Spin The Mic
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It's a fact that The Saurus didn't back down and let Pat Stay be the alpha male and all of that has a FACTUAL basis in primate psychology.
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Old 12-22-2018, 03:49 PM   #38
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Is Drummond the guy in the NYU sweatshirt?

Keep hearing this guys was hustling DVD's especially Franco DVD's.
Yes, thats him.
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Old 12-22-2018, 07:17 PM   #39
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I think he's referring to their battle in Spin The Mic
Their GT battle
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Old 12-22-2018, 07:31 PM   #40
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@irvsykeg you're killing me here. It's def possible that I have made mistakes in summarizing. It's also possible the author did too. But the fact that you say that I prob didn't do it intentionally is interesting to me. Why would someone intentionally switch up the chronology of disaster and the saurus' battles? Walk us through why someone might want to spread that false narrative. But since you don't care about battle rap- no hard feelings if you pass
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