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Old 01-30-2017, 04:17 AM   #241
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So anything that is less likely to cause death than wasps is defined as a good idea? You realize that the greater the number of refugees on American shores the greater the probability is right? What if the probability of dying from a refugee or a radical Muslim exceeds the probability of dying from a wasp? Will you change your position on that issue?
Ok, i was nice in OUR interaction but i gotta just......................... are you legally retarded?

1. You missed the point and approached it literally backwards. The fact is the risk is negligible. Fact. BAN THE WASPS!!!!!

2. No. That's not a close curve. There is a POSSIBILITY that the more refugees (assuming they're all Islamic adherents) come in, the higher the risk (there's actually no ACTUAL reason for the risk to increase with the number of refugees (especially if not Muslim). So, your point is 100% fallible.

3. "dying from a refugee". Are you Steve Bannon? LMAO

4. It would exceed the probability of hte next 100 causes of death before it got to a point that was worth a squirt of piss worrying about.

5. over 90% of terrorism IN the US has been purpotrated by white, Christian males.

Either you're literally pissing your pants right now, or you don't understand reality.
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Old 01-30-2017, 04:12 PM   #242
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So anything that is less likely to cause death than wasps is defined as a good idea? You realize that the greater the number of refugees on American shores the greater the probability is right? What if the probability of dying from a refugee or a radical Muslim exceeds the probability of dying from a wasp? Will you change your position on that issue?
I think our governments have a responsibility to atone for the atrocities we've committed in the Middle East, a region I don't think we should ever have interfered in imo. A way of compensating the citizens of nations we've violated is to provide them with asylum. In the UK we're so densely populated that we don't really have the geographical capacity to accommodate the number of migrants we've accommodated in recent years, but the USA has such vast land mass that they can accommodate far more immigrants than they are doing without burdening resources.

I also don't think it's necessarily safe to have massive concentrations of refugees in camps for host nations like Turkey, Greece, Jordan, Italy and Lebanon, it could cause the Syrian/Libyan wars to spill-over into satellite countries. In Western Europe that would be an ominous prospect. I don't want to antagonise those nations by not assisting them.
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Old 01-30-2017, 04:52 PM   #243
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I think you're missing that the extreme of both camps are batshit insane. They only work on the same insecurity principles in either case.
The difference is that Left-Leaning people tend to be less instrusive POLICY wise. They can be JUST as intrusive socially
Yeah the extremes at both ends of the dichotomy are lethal, because they both aspire for tyranny by the majority, which is populism in its purest form. Put simply I just think the far left want a monolithic government to level the playing field, balance the equilibrium, in the hope that these Robin Hood expropriations ultimately INDISCRIMINATELY subjugate every individual to a very modest standard of living. Whereas the far right envisage a Jim Crow inspired system where a giant/powerful government and crony capitalists DISCRIMINATELY reward the preferred ethnicity with prosperity, voting rights, gun rights, civil liberties, legal/judicial rights etc, whilst denying all of those privileges and basic rights to an enslaved, disenfranchised, ostracized, demonized minority ethnicity.

As I've demonstrated a huge distinction is that the radical left wing tenets (i.e. welfare) can be applied fairly consistently, whereas radical right wing tenets (i.e. firearm ownership) are not allowed to be applied consistently. This might explain why I think Conservatives are generally more hypocritical than socialists, and more liable to selectively contradict themselves.

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Old 01-30-2017, 07:36 PM   #244
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Reading this post was like watching you slowly moon walk your way down the evolutionary scale.
Made me laugh harder than anything has in a while.
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Old 01-30-2017, 10:21 PM   #245
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I think our governments have a responsibility to atone for the atrocities we've committed in the Middle East, a region I don't think we should ever have interfered in imo. A way of compensating the citizens of nations we've violated is to provide them with asylum.
Hm, maybe its not a good idea to bring in people from countries we set on fire in droves.

Maybe it would just be better to not commit atrocities?

Wouldn't it be cheaper and more effective to stop setting these countries on fire and provide humanitarian aid rather than turning these countries into a hellhole and then shipping people in?
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Old 01-30-2017, 10:28 PM   #246
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oops...

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Old 01-30-2017, 10:32 PM   #247
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Ok, i was nice in OUR interaction but i gotta just......................... are you legally retarded?

1. You missed the point and approached it literally backwards. The fact is the risk is negligible. Fact. BAN THE WASPS!!!!!

.
I'm aware of the fact that the majority of terrorism in the USA is by white males. That is because there are so many of them. Suffice to say I don't like religion and these archaic belief systems should all relegated to being fossils in the trash bin of history.

Religious zealots kill eachother over their religions. I don't want anything to do with countries wherein this type of thing happens on an equal or larger scale than it does in the West.

You just don't get where I'm coming from on this. I could elaborate my thoughts on this matter but I won't elaborate because you are not very open-minded and I don't want to go any deeper into this discussion, especially since you've resorted to name-calling

The risk of wasps is negligible, but we nonetheless tend to avoid them and avoid pissing wasps off. And that is my ethos of isolationism-- to avoid harming others but also taking every measure possible to avoid being harmed by others.

I understand that the risk is currently negligible but that risk climbs as these populations rise proportionally in the general population )

The risk is currently negligible because these populations represent such a small part of the general population. So let's keep it that way, let's keep the risk negligible by limiting the proportion of this particular population.

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Old 01-30-2017, 11:05 PM   #248
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You just don't get where I'm coming from on this. I could elaborate my thoughts on this matter but I won't elaborate because you are not very open-minded and I don't want to go any deeper into this discussion, especially since you've resorted to name-calling

The risk of wasps is negligible, but we nonetheless tend to avoid them and avoid pissing wasps off. And that is my ethos of isolationism-- to avoid harming others but also taking every measure possible to avoid being harmed by others.

I understand that the risk is currently negligible but that risk climbs as these populations rise proportionally in the general population )

The risk is currently negligible because these populations represent such a small part of the general population. So let's keep it that way, let's keep the risk negligible by limiting the proportion of this particular population.
No, no you're just not making any sense. Every piece of logic you're using is fallible. If you're not willing to elaborate your thoughts, take this L and accept that they can't be sumarily defended. I'm not trying to be an asshole and im sorry for suggesting you were retarded. That was shitty.

I understand your view point - that doesn't make it any more sensible. The risk is negligible because there is no real risk of allowing terrorists into the country. You're allowing (hypothetically) people into the country who as a group present LESS risk in regard to terrorism than the existing, homegrown population. As i previously pointed out, over 90% of all terrorism on U.S soil has been purportrated by white, Christian men. THAT is an ACTUAL risk you ALREADY have in your population. Isolationism over the last 100 years or so has actually quite readily CAUSED an uptick in domestic terrorism. Focusing on the negligible risk rather than accepting the ACTUAL problem seems a bit head-in-sand to me.

I accept that you value things that i don't or to degrees that i don't and that's fine - but the data shows that the logical conclusion of isolationism is civil war. Its KIND OF already happening in the U.S with the right/left thing. This election has bubbled higher than any other ive seen.
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:00 AM   #249
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No, no you're just not making any sense. Every piece of logic you're using is fallible. If you're not willing to elaborate your thoughts, take this L and accept that they can't be sumarily defended. I'm not trying to be an asshole and im sorry for suggesting you were retarded. That was shitty.

I understand your view point - that doesn't make it any more sensible. The risk is negligible because there is no real risk of allowing terrorists into the country. You're allowing (hypothetically) people into the country who as a group present LESS risk in regard to terrorism than the existing, homegrown population. As i previously pointed out, over 90% of all terrorism on U.S soil has been purportrated by white, Christian men. THAT is an ACTUAL risk you ALREADY have in your population. Isolationism over the last 100 years or so has actually quite readily CAUSED an uptick in domestic terrorism. Focusing on the negligible risk rather than accepting the ACTUAL problem seems a bit head-in-sand to me.

I accept that you value things that i don't or to degrees that i don't and that's fine - but the data shows that the logical conclusion of isolationism is civil war. Its KIND OF already happening in the U.S with the right/left thing. This election has bubbled higher than any other ive seen.
But you're not even addressing the crux of my position which is that I am fundamentally anti-religion. I simply do not want any part in it. I'm not focused on terrorism either, by the way. If you could show me evidence that religious zealotry is more prominent in the USA than in countries with Sharia law, for example, then I would change my mind on that point. Because my desire is to see religious fervor die out, I really don't care what flavor it is, since it is all the same mental illness IMO.

According to a 2014 survey that I am looking at, 0.9% of the American population is Muslim and over 60% of the population is Christian. So if those data are accurate, that would explain why the majority of religion inspired terrorism is Christian, rather than Muslim.

As for your assertion that isolationism leads to civil war, you need to explain that. And you can't just point to examples where isolationist countries have had civil wars, because that is mere correlation. You'll have to justify why isolationism necessarily plays a causative role in precipitating civil wars, which won't be easy to do, since no experiment can be done to isolate isolationism from all other variables.

You'll also have to explain why many countries that have been isolationist have never had civil war, or non-isolationist countries have had civil wars. I'm not a history buff, so I defer to you! Please teach me, enlightened master.

The only reason I engage in discussion is to learn and think. I enjoy hearing other points of view. There's no need to to view this as taking a "W" or an "L", especially when this started out as me trolling and when I'm being serious I'm not even fully engaging in the discussion, if only because I don't care for discussion of this kind over forums.

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Old 01-31-2017, 07:55 AM   #250
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But you're not even addressing the crux of my position which is that I am fundamentally anti-religion. I simply do not want any part in it. I'm not focused on terrorism either, by the way. If you could show me evidence that religious zealotry is more prominent in the USA than in countries with Sharia law, for example, then I would change my mind on that point. Because my desire is to see religious fervor die out, I really don't care what flavor it is, since it is all the same mental illness IMO.

Don't really have a problem with most of that. But i draw the line at using that opinion to actually enforce anything onto groups of religious people. Well, of course i accept that there are tiny little sects where their entire religious existence is a drive to violence - fuck that, i'm with you - but generally people can practice whatever fairytale bullshit they want as long as they don't hurt anyone.

According to a 2014 survey that I am looking at, 0.9% of the American population is Muslim and over 60% of the population is Christian. So if those data are accurate, that would explain why the majority of religion inspired terrorism is Christian, rather than Muslim.

Right, and i'm not surprised. Of course that's a factor. That's not really the point - the point is that it's still a negligible risk among a barely more-Muslim population. Like - i totally get where you're resting on that there's an uptick in risk which is fine, but it being a significant uptick is a massive overreach imo

As for your assertion that isolationism leads to civil war, you need to explain that. And you can't just point to examples where isolationist countries have had civil wars, because that is mere correlation. You'll have to justify why isolationism necessarily plays a causative role in precipitating civil wars, which won't be easy to do, since no experiment can be done to isolate isolationism from all other variables.

You'll also have to explain why many countries that have been isolationist have never had civil war, or non-isolationist countries have had civil wars. I'm not a history buff, so I defer to you! Please teach me, enlightened master.

The only reason I engage in discussion is to learn and think. I enjoy hearing other points of view. There's no need to to view this as taking a "W" or an "L", especially when this started out as me trolling and when I'm being serious I'm not even fully engaging in the discussion, if only because I don't care for discussion of this kind over forums.
Well within those paragraphs you basically set me up to reply, broke down the premise to reply on, then sort of said 'idgaf i just here for the punch'. Hmm. Interesting.
No judgement or anything just curious
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Old 04-27-2017, 01:51 PM   #251
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Shot:


Chaser:


Imagine not being rich and still supporting the idea of "trickle down economics".
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Old 04-27-2017, 02:08 PM   #252
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About 100 days in

The stock market has been good because of the perceived help of slashing regulations... that'll end soon and the stock market will plummet... once it plummets, I will take my money n put it in an index fund... cause it always goes back up... eventually
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Old 04-27-2017, 06:06 PM   #253
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The stock exchanges are just celebrating the fact Trump might give the bourgeoisie marvellous tax breaks, whilst simultaneously reversing Dodd-Frank.

I do think deregulation is advantageous, on balance, and whilst I do think income taxes, social security taxes, corporation taxes and CGT should be reduced across the wealth spectrum, you can only finance those shortfalls by raising indirect taxes elsewhere. I would exponentially hike the value added taxes on demerit products and services (i.e. alcohol/junk food), and on luxury products/luxury services only privileged people consume, and I would hike mansion taxes and estate taxes. Also if Trump wants to obliterate taxes super dramatically, he'll need to reduce spending, but he's promised to not reduce entitlements, he's spending more on the military, border security AND he's requesting $1 trillion on infrastructure! The deficit and debt is gonna balloon! It will be compelling to watch Trump renege on promises and make budget sacrifices for the sake of solvency.

I also think inflation might strike. Think about it, Trump refuses to incentivise renewable energy industry, which forces everyone to be more dependent on fossil fuels, which will inflate the price of petrol. Trump's enrichment of the military-industrial complex will also accelerate demand for fossil fuels. A spike in deportations of cheap labourers could trigger inflation aswell. I'm astounded people actually thought Trump's anti-establishment.

I think the worst economic path Trump could go down would be protectionism, and the disengagement from NAFTA. I actually think abandoning TPP was a missed opportunity. Any bonafied economist waxes lyrical about the eliminations of tariff barriers. I dunno why people are suddenly so disillusioned with free trade, it facilitates competition, cheapness, convenience, peaceful diplomatic collaboration, deregulation and introduces everyone to new markets. This is why I'm actually more pessimistic about the future of British economy after the Brexit fiasco than I am about the American economy in the Trump era.

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Old 05-22-2017, 07:46 AM   #254
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I think the worst economic path Trump could go down would be protectionism, and the disengagement from NAFTA. I actually think abandoning TPP was a missed opportunity. Any bonafied economist waxes lyrical about the eliminations of tariff barriers. I dunno why people are suddenly so disillusioned with free trade, it facilitates competition, cheapness, convenience, peaceful diplomatic collaboration, deregulation and introduces everyone to new markets. This is why I'm actually more pessimistic about the future of British economy after the Brexit fiasco than I am about the American economy in the Trump era.
I'll say here i think this attitude, generally, comes from a kind of ignorance. I'm from a country which has to outsource a lot of its consumer items (which doesn't make a lot of sense but thats how it is).
The TPP is not an economic nightmare for larger countries that have a thriving industrial sector but for the majority of countries having to deal with that industries as out-sources its fucking devilish.
There are provisions in it as it stands that essentially mean companies can sue our government if we pass laws that impinge on their ability to come to our country and sell us crap we don't need. I'm not patriot but that is FUCKED up. The only reason it works is because we're small and need things from other countries. Its the same as a protection racket to smaller nations.

Edit: To show my own ignorance, here's a article that seemed to cover why its shit for American's quite well http://rooseveltinstitute.org/why-tp...rican-workers/ .. feel free to tear it apart for me

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Old 08-13-2019, 02:05 AM   #255
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BUMP, let's have a look at how well this thread held up...
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Old 08-13-2019, 03:02 AM   #256
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BUMP, let's have a look at how well this thread held up...
Anything in particular stand out to you?
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Old 08-13-2019, 04:55 AM   #257
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Anything in particular stand out to you?
If nothing else, it's a time capsule of the idiocy demonstrated by Foreman, CBA, and Water Mage that will stand the test of time as a reminder of the type of fuckboys whose opinions I should never take seriously.
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Here's a picture of what a cabbage looks like sliced in half. It tells us life is naught but a series of fractal patterns and we are mathematically doomed to repeat our harshest failures.

http://973-eht-namuh-973.com/
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Old 08-13-2019, 05:02 AM   #258
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@GetPaid bodied this thread btw
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Here's a picture of what a cabbage looks like sliced in half. It tells us life is naught but a series of fractal patterns and we are mathematically doomed to repeat our harshest failures.

http://973-eht-namuh-973.com/
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Old 08-13-2019, 06:03 AM   #259
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If nothing else, it's a time capsule of the idiocy demonstrated by Foreman, CBA, and Water Mage that will stand the test of time as a reminder of the type of fuckboys whose opinions I should never take seriously.
Did you ever take their opinions seriously? I'm curious what opinions specifically you are referring to.
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Old 08-13-2019, 05:52 PM   #260
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@GetPaid bodied this thread btw
oh, btw, no he didn't. He and PriceIsRight just proved why SJW's are so frowned upon. You assume your virtues are A. the correct ones, B. supported by ALL available evidence and C. not up for discussion. Not literally losing your shit and yelling (proverbially) isn't much of a step down from batshit SJW nonsense.
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Old 08-13-2019, 06:23 PM   #261
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Old 08-14-2019, 04:44 PM   #262
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2 and a half years ago the more conservative leaning posters were definitely panicking unnesessarily about Middle-Eastern/African migration to Western Europe. Western Europe is still very stable and placid. And leftists, like me, were too paranoid about the impact of a Trump Presidency. Trump's just a demagogue and a con-man, and when he occasionally puts his bellicose rhetoric into action, they are publicity stunts that do reprehensibly violate a group of peoples human rights (for example: brutal treatment of asylum seekers, ICE detentions of law abiding, highly assimilated immigrants, Muslim bans etc), BUT they do not transform the landscape of the nation. The USA is getting more racially heterogeneous, deportations are a bit lower, the Mexican border is more open because Trump reduced humanitarian aid to Central America. As a progressive I'm not personally remotely anxious or disappointed that the USA's demographics are getting spectacularly racially diverse, I'm just referencing it to illustrate how ineffective Trump is. BUT with Trump's regressive tax reform, the frightening levels of income inequality and wealth inequality, will get even more unequal. Under Trump the USA's suicide rate and opioid epidemic are still devastating, the incarceration rate is still among the highest in the world, the healthcare system is still an absolute shambles, lead pollution still poisons communities, the calamitous war on drugs continues, the USA is still too subservient and loyal towards Saudi Arabia, UAE, Israel etc. BTW Obama could've alleviated a lot of those injustices and he mostly failed, and Clinton wouldn't have alleviated them either. You need to elect someone more collectivist like Sanders imo. However I think Trump will get re-elected because whilst I think he's making some economic miscalculations, I don't think the next recession will materialise until Trump's 2nd term, and the economy is still the electorate's highest priority. In spite of Trump's irresponsible attempts to over-stimulate the economy, GDP expansion is still pretty moderate, inflation's low, mostly attributable to the shale revolution, and the USA will triumph from Brexit, they can exploit the UK as a vassal state, and speculators will replace their Pounds with US Dollars. This will happen unless the UK swallows its pride and either remains in the EU or at the very least joins the Trans-Pacific Partnership. BUT because Trump's making the same fiscal mistakes as George W Bush, ballooning the debt and deficit during a period of economic growth the next recession could be as painful as the late 2000s/early 2010s economic crisis, if not more painful since the debt is so much more astronomical than it was in 2008, which Obama should also be held accountable for. As a consequence you won't have a surplus to finance the recovery from, like Clinton left for Bush during the 2000/2001 recession. And interest rates won't be high enough when the next recession strikes for a rate reduction to rehabilitate the economy.

I think Trump's only redeeming contributions have been a slight rapprochement with Russia and North Korea. This time last year I thought Trump had set the foundation for the neutralisation and denuclearisation of North Korea, but he's probably squandered the opportunity this year.

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Old 08-14-2019, 04:55 PM   #263
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oh, btw, no he didn't. He and PriceIsRight just proved why SJW's are so frowned upon. You assume your virtues are A. the correct ones, B. supported by ALL available evidence and C. not up for discussion. Not literally losing your shit and yelling (proverbially) isn't much of a step down from batshit SJW nonsense.
People who bitch about SJWs are more fuckin annoying than the SJWs at this point.
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Old 08-14-2019, 05:12 PM   #264
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@My Kall Interesting post. Will you please expand on this when you get a moment moment?

"Brexit, they can exploit the UK as a vassal state"

Thanks
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:20 PM   #265
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@My Kall Interesting post. Will you please expand on this when you get a moment moment?

"Brexit, they can exploit the UK as a vassal state"

Thanks
The UK might have to sacrifice its EU supply chains and its EU export markets if it suffers an acrimonious crash-out Brexit, aswell as sacrificing export markets belonging to nations with free trade agreements with the EU. Therefore the UK will need to replace those supply chains and markets. The UK will be especially economically isolated from the EU if the EU wants to be brutally punitive to the UK. Because the USA's economy is about 7 times larger than the UK's economy, and its military is so much more powerful, it has all the bargaining power and leverage when they negotiate their Anglo-American free trade agreement. The USA is also a lot less reliant on imports and exports than almost every other nation, it's phenomenally self sufficient, hence why it's able to enjoy a tradition of protectionism. Therefore the USA does not need to import much from the UK or export much to the UK. However without the EU, the UK will be desperately reliant on American capital injections into the British economy. Because the balance of power is so lopsided in the USA's favour, the USA has the luxury of being able to be imperial and force the UK to make loads of concessions to the USA. REMEMBER these are the hypothetical best case scenarios for the USA and worst case scenarios for the UK, I'm only speculating, but the British acquiescence could look something like this:

- USA could force the UK to conduct loads of financial transactions with the US Dollar.
- USA could the UK to only import products and services from the USA
- USA could force the UK to only borrow debts from US lenders and only accept investments from US financiers/fund managers.
- USA could force the UK to only devote foreign equity/bond investments to the US market.
- USA could force the UK to only export products and services to the USA, lowering the global demand for UK exports, lowering prices for USA.
- USA could force the UK to make the USA it's highest priority creditor.
- USA could force the UK to allow US corporations monopolies in the UK's domestic market, and to allow patent/intellectual property protections for US corporations.
- USA could force British companies to make technology transfers and patent transfers to American enterprises.
- USA could force the UK to over-regulate and expropriate non American companies partaking in the UK's domestic market, maximizing the competitiveness of US MNCs operating in the UK
- USA could force the UK to privatize public services and utilities and transfer them to US corporations.
- USA could force the UK to inform the US authorities on American tax evaders and American money launderers, forcing repatriations. A lot of US oligarchs have utilized the UK and British overseas territories like the Cayman Islands as conduits for money laundering and tax evasion.
- USA could force the UK to only make charitable donations to countries with an array of American businesses operating within them.
- US financial institutions could force the UK to perpetrate insider trading on their behalf.
- US unions and consumer interest groups may also pressurise American companies to restrict the amount they export to the UK and limit the investments and offshoring they direct to the UK with quotas, so the USA's domestic prices are lower and there's more cash available to reinvest in the USA.

Economics and global trade is inordinately complicated, but I hope this is informative for you. Remember none of what I described will come to fruition if the UK remains in the EU or overlooks the USA in favour of joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

Last edited by My Kall; 08-14-2019 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:31 PM   #266
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Economics and global trade is inordinately complicated, but I hope this is informative for you. Remember none of what I described will come to fruition if the UK remains in the EU or overlooks the USA in favour of joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership.
It is, and I just wikied the TPP and it describes it as being defunct. And at a glance, I've viewed the EU as holding back the UK. But I hadn't considered the points you've stated. How bizarre would it be if the US invited the UK to be the 51st state?
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:36 PM   #267
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People who bitch about SJWs are more fuckin annoying than the SJWs at this point.
Some of them, yeah. Just like with SJW's, there's a small group of obnoxious, untenable numbskulls just looking for something to be pissed off about (which is more ironic on the anti-side, i'll admit). But the majority of anti-SJW rhetoric is basically just a "get your shit together, use some logic and stop blaming everyone for your personal failures". Nothing wrong with that to me.
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:04 PM   #268
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i wonder what @erik foreman thinks of trump now... he doesnt seem so "moderate".
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:23 PM   #269
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i wonder what @erik foreman thinks of trump now... he doesnt seem so "moderate".
Trump voters don’t seem to be into silly things like ‘taking responsibility’... wouldn’t expect a peep from him lol
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:37 PM   #270
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