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M.O.S.S.: Complete Bar-for-Bar Scoring System | Daylyt vs Charlie Clips Full Score


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Old 08-01-2014, 08:00 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otis Funkmeyer View Post
I don't know if this is a meaningful addition, but I kinda think

"Shoutouts to TDE, cuz ToDay Every shot that hit him..." is at least a little clever and for some reason I think it's intentional... I'd give it a +1 or +2 points for that bar
Wouldn't have noticed that.. I'm not so certain that was intentional, but sure, what the hell
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Old 08-01-2014, 08:02 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Abstrakt View Post
there is something irritating about a textcee criticizing emcees who have performed in front of 1000s of people...

nothing against textcees, but come one....
I don't and never would textcee. Not that I think that would really make any difference to your opinion on the video, but somehow that bothered me to be accused of.
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Old 08-01-2014, 08:04 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Yeee View Post
I stopped when you did not connect the a boo (apu) bar with the aladin ones before it
Yea, sorry, missed that one.. I mean nobody's perfect right? I'm surprised you watched that much and then stopped because of that
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Old 08-01-2014, 08:09 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otis Funkmeyer View Post

So I really enjoy this... Thx for your work.. I do video stuff too so I know the shooting/editing is a LOT of work like A LOT A LOT A LOT and you did a good job with it so I know it probably took forever...

If you can manage to keep this up, I would probably watch all of these like I do the DBD show
Thanks a lot my man. I'm pleased with how the editing came out especially because I essentially never did video editing before this. You can probably tell that if you've been doing it for years, but as long as it's not too shotty then that's great.
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Old 08-01-2014, 08:30 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by SkippyMacDotCom View Post
I don't and never would textcee. Not that I think that would really make any difference to your opinion on the video, but somehow that bothered me to be accused of.
nothing against textcees. cause there are a lot of excellent ones here...but the description said you were the winner of some textbattle tourney?

i dont know...forgive me if i'm wrong. i woke up mad early for some reason.

but any judging system is flawed, as @The Wrist says, that does not include delivery - which like i said - is 75% of battle rap. if anything, Math's judging system is the best or mine (75% delivery 25% bars)

if Nerdy Ned spits some ridiculous hot punchlines but sounds like peewee herman - i am not going to listen to him.

Charlie Clips has steadily gotten better but all of his lines hit...this confused me for a while as well..but you know what...it's because he is a great performer. personally, ive always thought he was overrated. but live, the fans love him. so i dont hate on the guy...all i have is genuine respect for him.

Daylyt has more original bars, sure... but he reaches all the time. i fuck with him b/c he's clever and funny. but he's annoyed the hell out of me of late.

Clips 2-1.
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Last edited by Abstrakt; 08-01-2014 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 08-01-2014, 08:37 AM   #126
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also, i didnt watch the video...but i read your descriptions of the bars.

what are your thoughts of Aye Verb (at his best)?
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Old 08-01-2014, 08:47 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Abstrakt View Post
what are your thoughts of Aye Verb (at his best)?
I love to watch Aye Verb at his best - completely unique and undeniably monstrous.

Him being at his best is a bit rare, though. I haven't enjoyed his performances in KOTD much. I thought he was okay against Goodz, pretty cool against Swave.. have to go back to him vs Cortez for the last joint I really screwfaced at and re-watched numerous times.
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Old 08-01-2014, 08:59 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by SkippyMacDotCom View Post
I love to watch Aye Verb at his best - completely unique and undeniably monstrous.

Him being at his best is a bit rare, though. I haven't enjoyed his performances in KOTD much. I thought he was okay against Goodz, pretty cool against Swave.. have to go back to him vs Cortez for the last joint I really screwfaced at and re-watched numerous times.
YES! ok will watch your video.

verb's shit vs cortez was cold af.

also vs goodz that "iron low like im anemic\extensions nina gotta put my bitch weave in" was cold too

i feel like Verb is one of the only battlers who've ever spazzed besides Lux and Diz(AT HIS PRIME)

arsonal, at his best. remy, at his best...both can spazz too.... add Qleen to that list too
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Old 08-01-2014, 09:12 AM   #129
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Actually, I rewatched Verb vs Arsonal a handful of times, that's more recent than Cortez. A couple so-so spots, but a gang of dope shit in that one too.
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Old 08-01-2014, 09:24 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by SkippyMacDotCom View Post
Actually, I rewatched Verb vs Arsonal a handful of times, that's more recent than Cortez. A couple so-so spots, but a gang of dope shit in that one too.
Verb and Ars are top tier for a reason... i enjoy both because they DONT go punch after punch....they build up to haymakers.

that was a GREAT battle, imo... Ars's 3rd and Verb's 1st 2 rounds are fcking dope
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Old 08-01-2014, 12:26 PM   #131
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I'm gonna peep this before I comment, because I'm sure some of the questions I'd have will get answered...long video man, you put in work, I respect that regardless of whether or not I'll agree with you in the end.

P.S. Knameless scoring system so mad right now.
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Old 08-01-2014, 12:34 PM   #132
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love how i turned this dude's scoring system into a thread about Aye Verb

i am shameless - no william h macy
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Old 08-01-2014, 01:42 PM   #133
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I'm gonna peep this before I comment, because I'm sure some of the questions I'd have will get answered...long video man, you put in work, I respect that regardless of whether or not I'll agree with you in the end.

P.S. Knameless scoring system so mad right now.
Knamelis's system is the shit. Best round-based one. That's why I shout it out in the beginning of the video. I just believe judging a rap battle by round is not quite the right approach.

If I were to build a system that could actually be used for judging a battle live, off top it'd involve taking notes just like Knamelis does, trying to count every significant strike (and put down the total time they went each round, to divide that out so there's no advantage to a guy for going long), rate those, assign a round a score out a of 50 or 100 point maximum based on the significant strikes and the other elements of rap, and then total up the 3 rounds for each guy at the end.
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Old 08-01-2014, 03:00 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by SkippyMacDotCom View Post
Knamelis's system is the shit. Best round-based one. That's why I shout it out in the beginning of the video. I just believe judging a rap battle by round is not quite the right approach.

If I were to build a system that could actually be used for judging a battle live, off top it'd involve taking notes just like Knamelis does, trying to count every significant strike (and put down the total time they went each round, to divide that out so there's no advantage to a guy for going long), rate those, assign a round a score out a of 50 or 100 point maximum based on the significant strikes and the other elements of rap, and then total up the 3 rounds for each guy at the end.
Definitely, I'm kidding on that reference really, but Knamelis is probably my favorite judge period (and I've disagreed with him on a handful of things). I like your idea for judging live, because it leaves room for a bodybag round to steal a battle even if some people might be opposed to a shift like that.

On your video, I'll keep it 100, but the criticisms and suggestions are just my opinion and I think their outweighed by the quality. I'm just going in depth because you obviously put a lot of work into this and deserve some effort in response.

First, the editing is great, posting every bar for reading was cool. I thought you were pretty damned harsh on these cats, but you were fair imo and explained your logic on every score so that's not a complaint just a sense I get. I thought the battle was near classic but your scoring system ends up with them seeming pretty average on paper which I'd disagree with. Much respect for the time and effort on it all and you made some connections on bars that I completely missed.

That said, you missed some stuff too, anyone would with that many bars to break down. So my first suggestion might be to have more than one person looking into it all, it'd lighten the workload for you and it brings an additional perspective to the battles (it's always nice to have a devil's advocate and plus you deflect some of the hate from fans of either guy that are pissed about your judgement ). Just off the top of my head, I think you mentioned that the voices whispering "you can't copy respect" had nothing to do with anything but that's a Smack/URL reference...so while it's still not a perfect connecting bar, there's clear relevance there. You caught most of the DBZ stuff, but not knowing the source material well, it'd help if you had a cat that really was into that ish pointing out why references worked or didn't (I think you missed a Majin Buu reference).

I think bar for bar breakdowns kinda miss out on some important aspects of battle rap; namely crowd control, performance and actual bar impact (though to be fair, you gave credit when bars got reaction even if you felt they were forced so that was attended to somewhat). It's really evident that something isn't accounted for when you look at Clips performance...I do believe it was stronger than the score it got even though that score seems perfectly reasonable strictly going by the bars on paper. How he performed it and involved the crowd was where he managed to pick it up. I'm not sure if you mentioned whether or not your system accounts for freestyles and rebuttals but that's another aspect that would need handling with nuance imo. Finally, some of those four bar rhyme schemes got hit really hard and I'm pretty sure there were some devices used to make them flow a bit tighter than simply one or two word closers (If I'm not mistaken I recall Charlie using assonance on some of the non-rhyming closers to at least make it sound alright).

Last, the length. I couldn't see sitting for an hour and half for a battle breakdown most battles. I could do it for maybe a really intricate battle (Chill vs Day had a LOT of wordplay to get through) or a highly debatable battle (Bigg K vs Illmac maybe). This probably works for a small niche, but I think it'd end up underappreciated especially given the amount of effort it clearly requires. My suggestion might be to take highlights and lowlights from each battlers round, then giving a brief summary (kinda like how you closed out pointing to a list of poor set-ups and misplaced angles to justify the beating you gave Charlie). It'd also give more room for feedback from people that want to see how you judged bars that didn't make the video cut and I think it'd add some replayability.

Just my two cents fam, keep it up. This is dope in a lot of ways. Everyone debates every battle and you've put together a really nice alternative to the basic ish that everyone seems to go by. I like the angle you took, the editing was strong, you clearly did your homework and you were fair imho. It helps that I thought the battle was way closer than a lot of cats made it out to be (each time I watch I lean more towards Day).
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Old 08-01-2014, 03:28 PM   #135
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@j4remi Thank you for the watch, the kind and respectful words and the thorough response.

Wasn't that "can't copy respect" wasn't relevant - I knew that's a Smack thing, the issue I had was tossing "it's trust" on the end of it to make it rhyme. I should've actually said that more clearly I guess, didn't really walk that one through.

I watched this battle once before I scored it and it seemed pretty cool to me, but I tried my best to score it without any prejudices about whether it was a good battle or a bad battle, just went case by case on the individual pods.

I would never suggest this as a common practice for "all" battles. After hearing people say "bar-for-bar" about a thousand fuckin times I felt compelled to do it and with how the title picture is in KOTD this seemed like the battle to do it for. Peeps have been pointing out shit I missed all thread, I think if I do this again the next time I'll put up a text version first and have people help point out shit I missed before I make the video.
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Old 08-01-2014, 04:26 PM   #136
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That's a great idea in terms of getting input for things you missed. Got you on the 'it's trust" part, definitely a reach to rhyme and once you put it like that, makes a lot more sense to me. As for no prejudice against battle quality, I can definitely see how that works. Going bar for bar, the writing wasn't as strong as the sum of parts...aka, I don't think you can have a classic battle without a great crowd and two clean performances but neither of those aspects should impact scoring based solely on writing.

I definitely think you're on a good track and this could become something really fun to partake in. If you posted text first, I'd definitely want to jump in the dialogue. I think you picked a good battle for sure. Any Day battle is good for searching through the references and I like to see performance based cats get thrown into the fire for writing...I think Mook vs Lux would be another dope case study tbh lol
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Old 08-02-2014, 01:39 AM   #137
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Some very interesting approaches/ideas presented here. I think even people who dont care if a battle is judged or not should check this out. And every battler should at least watch the intro and learn the concept behind COHESIVENESS in their wordplay. Sheesh, will be lookin out for more of these.
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Old 08-02-2014, 01:57 AM   #138
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i give this thread a 10-10

yea the scoring was stupid as shit
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Old 08-02-2014, 02:05 AM   #139
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uuuununnn is better than Grind Time Antarcticauuuununnn is better than Grind Time Antarcticauuuununnn is better than Grind Time Antarcticauuuununnn is better than Grind Time Antarctica
anyways ; you cant "score " a fucken rap ,

there are no points

everyones opinions are worth more than everyone elses
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Old 08-02-2014, 04:29 AM   #140
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Correct-o, there are no such things as objective scores for rap. I never posited that these were objective.

But everyone on this board expresses their opinions on who wins certain battles, I just scored this battle in a new way. If you didn't find it interesting, sorry. Didn't expect to bat a thousand.
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Old 08-02-2014, 04:43 AM   #141
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Solid logic. But I disagree how you were more lenient for day especially with both of their opening bars. Overall it's a pretty good idea
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Old 08-02-2014, 04:47 AM   #142
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I think it would be interesting to break down Clips' bars vs. Tay Roc (the rematch) compared to this battle. Without transcribing the rounds or doing any bar-for-bar breakdown, I felt like his writing was much more crisp in that battle than it normally is. I think Clips is capable of cutting out a lot of the basic setups, but just gets lazy since he's such a talented performer. With the type of charisma and presence he has, he could probably freestyle 2 out of 3 rounds and make a debatable battle.

I don't think Clips went light against Day, but I do think the Tay Roc battle shows how he would write if he really focused 100%--or something close to it. There were still a few sloppy parts, but much fewer than normal. It just seems like attention to detail is not one of Clips' strong suits since he recognizes that he can get away with falling back on his natural talent.
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this is like the KKK doing a track with 2PAC's Mom.

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Old 08-03-2014, 12:23 AM   #143
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@rocky - Is that you at 40 seconds in?
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