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Does Avocado need to be involved for FilmOn to be a success?


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Old 11-07-2014, 12:15 PM   #1
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Does Avocado need to be involved for FilmOn to be a success?

With Caliboy Smoov and Daylyt being universally hated with the footage from VladTV, @AVOCADO responded, when asked if he will be filming Ether, with
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Originally Posted by AVOCADO View Post
Most likely not.
It's clear from the VladTV shots of an empty octagon that FilmOn has already started by getting their aesthetics completely wrong. From Caliboy holding a microphone and making awkward hand gestures to the empty ring with a disinterested crowd outside, the battle was a disaster (excluding the wack bars from Cali and the awkwardness from Daylyt).

Now...we've seen praise for the filming in battle rap production for Twizz, whoever it is at Guerilla Warfare, dude at Black Ice Cartel (not my taste but a lot of people dig his work), and for Avocado. With the Duel in the Desert, Avocado's filming actually managed to save what could've been a pretty dismal event, as some of the battles were lacklustre and he wasn't originally scheduled to film it. The PPV, though, came out great and the edited footage has even been praised by some of Avo's harshest critics on here.

I know what a lot of you are thinking (including "Seanzo is a faggot"): bars are bars. It shouldn't matter if the filming is good. A good battle is a good battle regardless. And, to that, I agree...but only to an extent. We have some of the most "seasoned" fans in battle rap here, and people who will try and actually focus on bars. What a lot of people here forget, though, is that a lot of battle rap (for casual or new fans) is about energy and the feeling of tension between two battlers. This is one of the reasons people can't understand why Dizaster succeeds: despite the fact he slips up a lot, and will say illogical, sometimes awful things, he has an energy and intensity that fans less invested in lyrics really respond to.

How can battle rap succeed in a mainstream, new audience, if it's just simply two dudes spitting bars at one another with no atmosphere? We've all tried to show battle rap to friends who don't know anything about battles, and does anyone here start with battles where it's just complicated bars? People aren't used to paying that much attention to lyrics in rap, and so catching word play will be difficult. All they'll do is go "i dunno. just people talking about shooting each other. pretty lame".

Yet...there is a dude close to Lush, and on the Fresh Coast, who has successfully found ways to show off the tension in battle rap. Who has actually tried to think of ways to accentuate subtle moments in battles (like when Math briefly talks to Diz after his third round, how much that sets the tone for Diz's third). In order to succeed to a mainstream audience, that stuff needs to be there. The competition in battles has to be clear and fierce; the atmosphere has to be such that people feel like they should give a shit. You can't do that filming battles like they're reality TV.

It doesn't have to be Avo. Find anyone with experience filming battles. I just think it should be Avo. If FilmOn doesn't get someone like him to at least consult on how the filming is done, you may as well say "fuck it" and call FilmOn a failure right away, because they're not getting one of the most vital parts in selling battle rap correctly.


tl;dr? FilmOn will fail if they don't get people who know battle rap to be involved with filming.
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Its called battle rap, not battle skin.
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Hell yeah, about to smoke some weed from my special gandalf replica pipe and watch this
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and jewish people dont eat beef so ur definitely not right on that 1
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:18 PM   #2
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And they need to fix their ads and their entire approach to making media. Shit looks like the early 2000s/late 90s with crappy typography and no style. All of the ads are awful. Even look at the one TheSaurus shot. It was terrible and uncomfortable and felt so amateurish. So far FilmOn has done absolutely NOTHING to make me excited for Cassidy vs Diz or any of the battles on that card.
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and jewish people dont eat beef so ur definitely not right on that 1
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:28 PM   #3
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Their trailers/etc seem to be going fine so far. Nah.

Pretty sure a million dollar company knows how to work a camera and microphones
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:31 PM   #4
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Their trailers/etc seem to be going fine so far. Nah.

Pretty sure a million dollar company knows how to work a camera and microphones
Aren't you just excited that Diz is on the card, Ekelon?

Also, Total Slaughter failed at its filming and people in the crowd couldn't hear the bars, despite the fact it was a big budget event. Why don't you go back to pretending you attend events and avoid the big boy conversations here?
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and jewish people dont eat beef so ur definitely not right on that 1
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:44 PM   #5
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when i saw the smoov/daylyt footage, i immediately cringed. the filmOn logo is too big and then of course they have twitter handles and what not also in another corner. but to top it off they used hand-held mics, lush talked throughout the battle that for some reason is in a cage..and they used the footage from the cameras outside the cage whichwas annoying af also. when i can see cameramen inside the ring the entire time i couldnt help but wonder why they didnt use that footage. never the less the crowd seemed disinterested. i feel like this was just a test battle, to see what ppl thought of the setup? it seemed rather on the spot. i dont know but i hope they can figure things out before ether.
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:45 PM   #6
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Haven't seen alot promotion for this event tbh. That 20 min trailer was mad by a fan not filmom. Its like they just expect people to show up because Cass on the card. The ehaven' even anmouced moat of the under card yet and lush announcing some of em via twitter is wack.
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:46 PM   #7
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:53 PM   #8
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Haven't seen alot promotion for this event tbh. That 20 min trailer was mad by a fan not filmom. Its like they just expect people to show up because Cass on the card. The ehaven' even anmouced moat of the under card yet and lush announcing some of em via twitter is wack.
exactly. Why are we getting weak announcements on twitter when KOTD announcements come with dope videos that make us hype for the battle? Like, if this is to get new fans interested, why are there not better ads?

This future of battle rap stuff makes no sense when it's not appealing to new fans or old fans. Who's this event for? It's a month away and there's no hype. They've spent more on just Cassidy for this battle than all KOTD events combined for the past couple years (250k apparently).

I'm not even trying to hate on Lush or anyone involved. I hope Diz vs Cass is an amazing battle and same with Serius vs Daylyt. But I just don't feel at all excited for it.
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Hell yeah, about to smoke some weed from my special gandalf replica pipe and watch this
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and jewish people dont eat beef so ur definitely not right on that 1
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Old 11-07-2014, 01:02 PM   #9
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Aren't you just excited that Diz is on the card, Ekelon?

Also, Total Slaughter failed at its filming and people in the crowd couldn't hear the bars, despite the fact it was a big budget event. Why don't you go back to pretending you attend events and avoid the big boy conversations here?
I'm not ekelon and I don't appreciate an admin/mod creating more controversy for trolls to continue harrassing me, @ErikForeman

To answer your question, weird match up but it will just be another mainstream fall off embarrassing himself.

Total Slaughter didn't really fail with it's filming, it's PPV was extraordinary.

The TV series was even better, very good vibe unless you just nitpick to be the critic type.

I have never pretended to be at an event, what are you talking about?

If you don't want people having a conversation in a thread, then don't create it.
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Old 11-07-2014, 01:08 PM   #10
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I've checked out some of filmon's original programming. They're all trashy both in content and aesthetics. Correct me if I'm wrong but the trailer whichwas well received wasn't even done by filmon but some random fan. And didn't avo do a trailer for them with the vendetta 1 leftovers template. And yeah those crappy battler trailers (thesaurus akward one, myers...)

I don't hate lush and always thought dude was cool and I know he doesn't make every decision of fcmg but I'll surely feel a certain way if the guy behind the camera who lush came up with and practically defines that fresh coast aesthetic and undisputedly the leader of battle rap camera work isn't part of what they flaunt as their power play and biggest event.

Now we haven't seen the end product yet but ive been asking here for awhile (that avo answer was from me asking) about avos involvement and now I'm certainly worried about this event if filmon is wholly responsible for its art direction. Their programming roster mainly consists of Hollywood stereotypes, hasbeens, rejects for a good reason and just plain tasteless. Professional rebel my ass this alki guy.

Weirdest card ever aside from Pete vs ars and certainly looks to be a step backward than something groundbreaking (especially in terms of production). Its probably gonna be a success in fcmg/filmon's eyes (day-smoov had 1 mil viewers they say) but I'll be surprised if it turns out as something like a battle rap benchmark like how they tout it to be and had the chance to be.
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Old 11-07-2014, 01:14 PM   #11
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I'm not ekelon and I don't appreciate an admin/mod creating more controversy for trolls to continue harrassing me, @ErikForeman

To answer your question, weird match up but it will just be another mainstream fall off embarrassing himself.

Total Slaughter didn't really fail with it's filming, it's PPV was extraordinary.

The TV series was even better, very good vibe unless you just nitpick to be the critic type.

I have never pretended to be at an event, what are you talking about?

If you don't want people having a conversation in a thread, then don't create it.
the PPV didn't even work online for most people and hundreds of thousands were lost. Most people, myself included, who paid for it, ended up watching a bootleg while it was going on.

The TV series was awful. What are you talking about? They put a bunch of battlers who write their battles into a small house and had them battle with no prep and most of the dudes choked. Horrible look for battle rap. It was basic reality TV with no background on battlers, no context, and no good battles.

"critic type" is ridiculous. You probably call people "haters" frequently. Step your taste game up.
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Hell yeah, about to smoke some weed from my special gandalf replica pipe and watch this
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and jewish people dont eat beef so ur definitely not right on that 1
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Old 11-07-2014, 01:24 PM   #12
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the PPV didn't even work online for most people and hundreds of thousands were lost. Most people, myself included, who paid for it, ended up watching a bootleg while it was going on.

The TV series was awful. What are you talking about? They put a bunch of battlers who write their battles into a small house and had them battle with no prep and most of the dudes choked. Horrible look for battle rap. It was basic reality TV with no background on battlers, no context, and no good battles.

"critic type" is ridiculous. You probably call people "haters" frequently. Step your taste game up.
I could care less what people's opinions are, everyone has one.

The critic type is what you are describing yourself,

Quote:
They put a bunch of battlers who write their battles into a small house
Has nothing to do with the purpose of the show.

Quote:
had them battle with no prep
they had like a whole day, they just suck(ed)

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and most of the dudes choked
Not the show's fault.

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Horrible look for battle rap
Yeah, if you nitpick.
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Old 11-07-2014, 01:26 PM   #13
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Has the Daylyt vs cali smooth battle been officially released? I saw the footage from Vlad and he was just him filming from outside the ring so he was not getting the mic audio feed. It seemed like the cameras the filmon guys were using looked pretty bad. So it won't have the nice Avo cinematic aesthetic style we are used to. Who knows maybe they have some good editors or graphic guys to really make the footage better?
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Old 11-07-2014, 02:00 PM   #14
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Avocado would be the best option. Not only is he great at what he does...but he knows what's been done before in battle rap. What has worked, what hasn't worked, what's corny, what's relevant, what's played out....it's best to have someone that's been long connected to the scene imo
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Old 11-07-2014, 02:02 PM   #15
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As far as the event being a success though, if we're talking financial success, I think it's a money losing venture no matter what.
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Old 11-07-2014, 02:08 PM   #16
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This event may be a train wreck.
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Old 11-07-2014, 02:21 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by JerseyNoName View Post
I could care less what people's opinions are, everyone has one.

The critic type is what you are describing yourself,



Has nothing to do with the purpose of the show.


they had like a whole day, they just suck(ed)



Not the show's fault.



Yeah, if you nitpick.
This is literally one of the stupidest things I've ever read on this forum. This is dumber than any Willy topic.
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Old 11-07-2014, 02:30 PM   #18
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the PPV didn't even work online for most people and hundreds of thousands were lost. Most people, myself included, who paid for it, ended up watching a bootleg while it was going on.

The TV series was awful. What are you talking about? They put a bunch of battlers who write their battles into a small house and had them battle with no prep and most of the dudes choked. Horrible look for battle rap. It was basic reality TV with no background on battlers, no context, and no good battles.

"critic type" is ridiculous. You probably call people "haters" frequently. Step your taste game up.
completely disagree, total slaughter was the most talked about battle related thing maybe ever for the duration of the announcement to show to ppv.

it was always meant as a rites of passage into the battle community and it was extremely successful in doing so. For lack of a better term it was a beta test and I'm sure they'll address most of the problems and build from it.


as far as Avo, its very telling that he's not involved. Although they most certainly can hire an outside team thats more experienced in live production like UW did, what really concerns me is this option i saw on the purchase page

Hologram Experience Only $19.99

Hologram Experience - Outside Only Ticket (does not include access inside Belasco Theatre).

makes me think they are gonna have a green screen backdrop and think a graphic overlay will compensate for the ppv. this would probably be a huge fuck up.

it would be worth going for 20 bucks if bonnie wore her glowstick dress tho


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Old 11-07-2014, 02:41 PM   #19
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yeah this events gonna bomb and lush gonna be running back to organik for a third chance.
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Old 11-07-2014, 02:48 PM   #20
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completely disagree, total slaughter was the most talked about battle related thing maybe ever for the duration of the announcement to show to ppv.
I guess when I say failure I mean that it was a shitty event with lousy battles and didn't generate much buzz afterwards. Like...I seriously doubt another one is coming, and isn't it telling that they've gone silent?

Also, the show got less viewers week after week and I remember most of us feeling, up until a couple weeks before, that there was hardly any promotion done.

It was definitely more hype than the FilmOn event, though.
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Hell yeah, about to smoke some weed from my special gandalf replica pipe and watch this
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and jewish people dont eat beef so ur definitely not right on that 1
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Old 11-07-2014, 03:46 PM   #21
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Boo @Seanzo for not mentioning bagnal as someone who does this shit right.


I wouldn't say without avo they will defo fail, but I can't understand why you wouldn't get him to do the fliming, he's the best in the game and knows what he is doing and what does and doesn't work with battles. Why get lush as the guy to book battles and then not get someone with an equal amount of experience to make sure they are presented well.
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Old 11-07-2014, 04:02 PM   #22
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This is literally one of the stupidest things I've ever read on this forum. This is dumber than any Willy topic.
Ok, now that you've expressed your feelings towards the post

Tell me what's so stupid about it.
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Old 11-07-2014, 04:05 PM   #23
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They need to do something, that other shit looked terrible.
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People like Dizaster ruin battle rap...
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Old 11-07-2014, 04:06 PM   #24
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I'm not ekelon and I don't appreciate an admin/mod creating more controversy for trolls to continue harrassing me, @ErikForeman

To answer your question, weird match up but it will just be another mainstream fall off embarrassing himself.

Total Slaughter didn't really fail with it's filming, it's PPV was extraordinary.

The TV series was even better, very good vibe unless you just nitpick to be the critic type.

I have never pretended to be at an event, what are you talking about?

If you don't want people having a conversation in a thread, then don't create it.
Ekelon mad as fuck.

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Old 11-07-2014, 04:18 PM   #25
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Ok, now that you've expressed your feelings towards the post

Tell me what's so stupid about it.
Well for starters, you completely ignored the part about how the PPV didn't even work, after claiming it was "extraordinary!"

The fact I have to break down why what you said is so fuckin stupid only makes it stupider.

You start by quoting him and cutting off the sentence before it even finished. Retarded. The house being small wasn't his point, read the sentence in its entirety you fucking halfwit.

"They put a bunch of battlers who write their battles into a small house and had them battle with no prep and most of the dudes choked."

The issue was picking dudes known for their writing and not giving them tim to prep.

Then you respond with "Well they had 1 day of prep" genius. Thanks for proving his point.

Then you go on to say its not the shows fault the people choked? There is a direct correlation between them not having no prep time and them choking. They picked battlers and put them into a situation they don't excel at. That is entirely the shows fault. Everyone knew shit was goin to be terrible before it aired just based on the round times and the prep time.

Then you say its nitpicking, after essentially agreeing with everything he said(Only difference is who he blames falls on) and acknowledging that most people did bad on the show.

At no point did you say anything to argue that it was a good look, you just strengthened his argument that it was a bad lookin by reinforcing every complaint all the "critics" had with the show by acknowledging those things happened.

You admit they sucked, you admit people choked. Even if it was 100% on the rappers and they had weeks to prep its stll not a good look for battle rap when the majority of the competition chokes, you fucking idiot.

No idea why I even responded to your dumbass.
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Old 11-07-2014, 04:22 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Dank Schrader View Post
Boo @Seanzo for not mentioning bagnal as someone who does this shit right.


I wouldn't say without avo they will defo fail, but I can't understand why you wouldn't get him to do the fliming, he's the best in the game and knows what he is doing and what does and doesn't work with battles. Why get lush as the guy to book battles and then not get someone with an equal amount of experience to make sure they are presented well.
Shiiiiiiit. I hope he's not browsing this place and catching those things. Bagnal >>>
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Its called battle rap, not battle skin.
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Hell yeah, about to smoke some weed from my special gandalf replica pipe and watch this
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and jewish people dont eat beef so ur definitely not right on that 1
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Old 11-07-2014, 04:54 PM   #27
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lush one is kind of a shitty person for not ensuring that avo would get to film this.

its the least he could do after owing him money for like 3 years.
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Old 11-07-2014, 05:10 PM   #28
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I could care less what people's opinions are, everyone has one.

The critic type is what you are describing yourself,



Has nothing to do with the purpose of the show.


they had like a whole day, they just suck(ed)



Not the show's fault.



Yeah, if you nitpick.
So the battlers sucked and choked and it wasn't a bad look for battle rap

Interesting perspective I guess
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i have buddies who told me about a guy falling while snowboarding and injuring his ribs to the point that it messed up his breath control, so he had to sit out of his hobby for a few months. something tells me they were talking about psycoses.
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WE IN HERE NUTDOGS TURN UP. ii
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Old 11-07-2014, 05:13 PM   #29
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efarrell is not the worst person
I have trust issues with footage not involving avo/twizzz
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Old 11-07-2014, 05:22 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Dank Schrader View Post
Boo @Seanzo for not mentioning bagnal as someone who does this shit right.


I wouldn't say without avo they will defo fail, but I can't understand why you wouldn't get him to do the fliming, he's the best in the game and knows what he is doing and what does and doesn't work with battles. Why get lush as the guy to book battles and then not get someone with an equal amount of experience to make sure they are presented well.
Very well stated
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Old 11-07-2014, 05:23 PM   #31
@VapeHop
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@VapeHop is NICE@VapeHop is NICE@VapeHop is NICE@VapeHop is NICE@VapeHop is NICE@VapeHop is NICE
keep it real tho... the TS PPV lost like a round or two of 1 battle, it wasn't catastrophic.
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:00 PM   #32
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I guess we will have to wait and see when the official footage of that battle drops but to answer your question no I dont think Avocado's involvement in filmon is required for it to be a success. I know almost everyone on here (myself included) really rate the work he does for KOTD and it is amongst the best in battle rap but at the same time I think there is definitely room for someone else with a unique style to come in and work on the filmon events.

KOTD's videos have been of a very high standard for a while now and its clear they have their own style, I personally would be able to forgive the filmon battles not looking as good if the person who produced the battles obviously tried to do something different and stamp it with their own style. If its just a knock off of KOTD's videos then obviously they should just get Avo to do them shits but we wont know that till after the event.
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:04 PM   #33
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I know what a lot of you are thinking (including "Seanzo is a faggot")
this guy is a fucking psychic

i think ur right but also
maybe there is possibility for innovation, maybe they do it so different but it ends up being really good

prob wont be like that but who knows
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:06 PM   #34
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im expecting 60 inch LCDs posted around the venue
smoke machines
pyrotechniques to go off at the end of hard bars
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:09 PM   #35
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this guy is a fucking psychic
.....special wtf
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I hope the event gets shut down so they have to do Diz vs Cass in a parking lot or some shit
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:11 PM   #36
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the PPV didn't even work online for most people and hundreds of thousands were lost. Most people, myself included, who paid for it, ended up watching a bootleg while it was going on.

The TV series was awful. What are you talking about? They put a bunch of battlers who write their battles into a small house and had them battle with no prep and most of the dudes choked. Horrible look for battle rap. It was basic reality TV with no background on battlers, no context, and no good battles.

"critic type" is ridiculous. You probably call people "haters" frequently. Step your taste game up.
You made this thread about production value and pointed out the Total Slaughter PPV quality but made a judgment off a bootleg that was probably filmed off TV.

The production value of the TV show was fine. Their 24/7 type segments for the battles before the main card were dope. You were talking about how the crowd can't hear the bars but that's an audio problem not a video problem. Even guys like Twizz and Avocado have had problems with audio in events.

The online PPV ended up being a bust but their On-Demand PPV, as in through TV, worked fine and without a hitch on my end. I doubt they would have made "hundreds of thousands" off an online PPV and most of their money was from advertisers, ticket sales, and the On-Demand PPV, which likely had a much wider reach to paying customers than a online only PPV would have.

Biggest issue I can recall from the Total Slaughter PPV was the really wide angle they used most of the time. It was awkward especially since they had closer cameras they barely cut to.

Last edited by JOBone; 11-07-2014 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:11 PM   #37
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.....special wtf
he clearly baited but super good topic
thot it be ok since im agreeing with all hes saying
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:11 PM   #38
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Does Avocado want to be the guy doing it all?
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:18 PM   #39
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Pretty sure a million dollar company knows how to work a camera and microphones
Disagree 100%. Battle rap is different than concerts, stand up comedy, etc.
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:28 PM   #40
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Film On is doing battle events to boost their brand, not improve the battle culture IMO.

That said, since they have the chicken it would be great if the production value was high, but isn't this eccentric billionaire mostly concerned with hologram technology?

Lush puts on Diz and his boys. @AVOCADO were you approached to work this event?

It is becoming cliche, the angle about only URL battles matter, while that is partially true that an established SM stage holds more weight than any other event... "only stage that matters" is also one of their slogans.. aren't we just mimicking that to an extent?

All that said, even with high production value... a Film On type league/event.. can have all the highest profile stars but their shows will mean more after/ if the league becomes established.
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