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Is battle rap even cool?


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Old 09-27-2020, 04:47 PM   #41
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coolest battle rapper turned rapper was Big L by far. dude had some of the most clever punchlines.
Big L is cool... punchlines, concise rapping flowing over a beat, Great delivery and plenty of style.... He looks and sounds cool when he raps, this is what I'm talking about

I guess my issues stem from the fact that I don't like it when charisma, punchlines, enjoyability, style take a back seat to writing long and intricate rounds, at some point it just weighs the rapping down way too much..... it's like listening to a guitar player with tons of technical prowess, but it just isn't particularly good music, while some guitarists can make amazing music with just 2-3 chords.

I only like heavy use of wordplay when S.O.N.S do it because they really know how to sell it plus they are aware of how cheesy it is and they embrace it, making it fun to listen to

Love Conceited he always puts so many cartoonish images in my head, that's one thing I love about battling is when the lines give you hilarious mental images

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Old 09-27-2020, 04:54 PM   #42
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Rap battle is not cool. It is embarrassing to tell people. I mean as an adult what is really "cool" though? Things that weren't cool when I was younger. Being a good upstanding person. Having a fulfilling family life. Not being a complete fuck up. Having a good job. Not being a criminal. Basically the complete opposite of what I thought was cool when I started watching battle rap in 2007.
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Old 09-27-2020, 05:12 PM   #43
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I mean as an adult what is really "cool" though? .
That's the thing, everyone should define what's cool or not cool for themselves, when they do that, they are closer to being fully themselves, hip hop is a great medium for that

When I use the word "cool" I'm not using it in the sense of "being accepted by your peers" or "being a person that society approves of" - I'm a punk and a skate rat so in my world this goes without saying, but I should have been clear from the beginning

I'm using it in the sense that Arnold Schwarzenegger is cool, Big L is cool, etc.

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Old 09-27-2020, 09:48 PM   #44
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Yeah I still think you're trippin if you think it's lame or socially awkward. Your hobbies are as socially awkward as you are. I see no shame in anyone saying they like Star Trek, Starwars or cosplay. Imo that's as common as people being really into football and buying gear/playing fantasy leagues.

If you're worried about how you come across over something you're into, that's a YOU problem. When I'm in Europe they've tried to roast me for being a massive fan of Baseball and American Football because to them it doesn't get more lame than those 2 sports. Then I break it down and they actually end up having respect for it. I literally NEVER had that experience with battlerap. Legit 100% never.
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Old 09-27-2020, 10:14 PM   #45
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That's the thing, everyone should define what's cool or not cool for themselves, when they do that, they are closer to being fully themselves, hip hop is a great medium for that

When I use the word "cool" I'm not using it in the sense of "being accepted by your peers" or "being a person that society approves of" - I'm a punk and a skate rat so in my world this goes without saying, but I should have been clear from the beginning

I'm using it in the sense that Arnold Schwarzenegger is cool, Big L is cool, etc.
In that sense, some aspects are cool to me, and others aren't. For example, I thought Daylyt vs Tay Roc was cool because I was impressed with the lyrics. I also think the blogger Adept HNIC is cool because he mixes trolling with a few things that have grains of truth and is disrupting the powers that be in the process. I don't think PC culture in battle rap is cool tho. And a lot of the new performers .. I am not checking for them.

I thought you were using the word cool, like what the mainstream likes or what is popular in the moment.
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Old 09-27-2020, 10:16 PM   #46
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Yeah I still think you're trippin if you think it's lame or socially awkward. Your hobbies are as socially awkward as you are. I see no shame in anyone saying they like Star Trek, Starwars or cosplay. Imo that's as common as people being really into football and buying gear/playing fantasy leagues.

If you're worried about how you come across over something you're into, that's a YOU problem. When I'm in Europe they've tried to roast me for being a massive fan of Baseball and American Football because to them it doesn't get more lame than those 2 sports. Then I break it down and they actually end up having respect for it. I literally NEVER had that experience with battlerap. Legit 100% never.
Agree with this 100 percent. If you are embarrassed about what you like like then you might want to reexamine how you are spending your time.
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Old 09-28-2020, 01:23 AM   #47
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I thought you were using the word cool, like what the mainstream likes or what is popular in the moment.
I do think that matters too, but only for the sake of battle rap having a future and getting new people into it, both viewers and fans..

Like a lot of punks hate pop punk, (I'm not one of them) but without bands like Green Day, how do you bring people into it? Not everyone is going to like the hardcore stuff right away.. If I wanted to try to give you a punk initiation I'd show you obscure pop punk or poppy ska-punk that is better than mainstream pop punk, then melodic punk, before I showed you the "purer" stuff that is edgier and less accessible

And I think that's why battle rap has no new fans and very little new talent, because there's no diversity in it and it's all really hardcore stuff

So yeah, I would love to see a more mainstream and very aesthetic version of battle rap come out, because many fans and battlers from it would possible graduate up to the stuff that most people here like

If battle rap had a "pop" version league, I'm guessing it would be short battles (around 5-6 minutes, I'd say), more tuned to what's popular in rap in general, and the battlers for this would be chosen based on charisma, style, punch-line heavy, clowning, etc.. it would be great to have a league or a division for that

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Old 09-28-2020, 08:18 AM   #48
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Agree with this 100 percent. If you are embarrassed about what you like like then you might want to reexamine how you are spending your time.
Exactly! Cool is such a stupid concept. I grew up in the tail end of the 80s and rocking oversized jeans, slicked back hair, talking in 'rad' slang and doing yo-yo was the shit back then. The very things I would get laughed at for doing now. Why? Because society decided that cool didn't include those things any more.

Therefore, I think the best answer is that battle rap is as cool or as uncool as you make it. If you are embarrassed by what you're rapping or listening to, what does that say about you and your choices as an artist/listener? If you are embarrassed to be caught listening to Zain Azrai, Eek or a blackfaced out Uno Lavoz, you should probably, you know, not listen.

Rap is the same. I don't listen to Sage Francis, Lupe Fiasco, and even MF Doom, just because it doesn't move me for whatever reason, but I don't look down on the people that think those guys are the GOATs. Same with battle rap, listen to the guys that you like, don't feel forced to listen to whoever simply because some random nerds on the net think he's the next Lux.

There was a great rap journalist who used to write for HHC who said that good rap is something that grabs you and doesn't let you go, not something that you had to force yourself not to hate. I think that goes for battle rap too.
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Old 09-28-2020, 01:18 PM   #49
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i don't remember whose slogan it was but "Ain't nobody cool" is my favorite statement that I've heard through the ol' battling archives

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Old 09-28-2020, 01:31 PM   #50
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i think a lot of people thought way too hard about this question
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Old 09-28-2020, 02:10 PM   #51
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Yeah I still think you're trippin if you think it's lame or socially awkward. Your hobbies are as socially awkward as you are. I see no shame in anyone saying they like Star Trek, Starwars or cosplay. Imo that's as common as people being really into football and buying gear/playing fantasy leagues.

If you're worried about how you come across over something you're into, that's a YOU problem. When I'm in Europe they've tried to roast me for being a massive fan of Baseball and American Football because to them it doesn't get more lame than those 2 sports. Then I break it down and they actually end up having respect for it. I literally NEVER had that experience with battlerap. Legit 100% never.
I agree for the most part, I definitely get the piss taken out of me by my mates for being "too" into battle rap, but they get it and they'll join me for the occasional PPV.

When I read these threads I'm always a bit taken aback by people's shame or embarrassment. I know it's not all that serious for most, but some of you guys sound like you have terrible friends or are just waay overthinking it.
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Old 09-28-2020, 03:08 PM   #52
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Rap is the same. I don't listen to Sage Francis, Lupe Fiasco, and even MF Doom, just because it doesn't move me for whatever reason, but I don't look down on the people that think those guys are the GOATs. Same with battle rap, listen to the guys that you like, don't feel forced to listen to whoever simply because some random nerds on the net think he's the next Lux.
Good point. There is probably no reason to watch every battle that comes out
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Old 09-28-2020, 03:22 PM   #53
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Authentic battle rap is always cool, sometimes uncommon. Society isn't very cool rn, on the other hand. Being an outlier to an extent is not so bad

Industry rappers are considered the epitome of cool and they watch battle rap secretly. Sometimes the jocks wish they could hang out with the nerds

PS: I get the premise of the thread though and it's not invalid
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Old 09-30-2020, 02:00 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Abstrakt View Post
coolest battle rapper turned rapper was Big L by far. dude had some of the most clever punchlines.
What is interesting about Big L is that he used battle rap punches in rap aimed at the mainstream and did it without reducing the impact of his music. Every battle rapper should take note at how effortlessly he does it as it shows there is a market for that style and that it is more about delivering flawlessly and charismatically on-beat than fans not feeling the battle rap style on beat. As for the GOAT battler turned rapper, definitely between him and BIG, although Slug's battling (and music, lol) is a definite guilty pleasure.
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Old 09-30-2020, 02:01 AM   #55
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Good point. There is probably no reason to watch every battle that comes out
Never got why people have a huge list of rappers and musicians that they don't listen to and then try and force themselves to listen to every battle out there.
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Old 09-30-2020, 05:40 AM   #56
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Exactly! Cool is such a stupid concept. I grew up in the tail end of the 80s and rocking oversized jeans, slicked back hair, talking in 'rad' slang and doing yo-yo was the shit back then. The very things I would get laughed at for doing now. Why? Because society decided that cool didn't include those things any more.

Therefore, I think the best answer is that battle rap is as cool or as uncool as you make it. If you are embarrassed by what you're rapping or listening to, what does that say about you and your choices as an artist/listener? If you are embarrassed to be caught listening to Zain Azrai, Eek or a blackfaced out Uno Lavoz, you should probably, you know, not listen.

Rap is the same. I don't listen to Sage Francis, Lupe Fiasco, and even MF Doom, just because it doesn't move me for whatever reason, but I don't look down on the people that think those guys are the GOATs. Same with battle rap, listen to the guys that you like, don't feel forced to listen to whoever simply because some random nerds on the net think he's the next Lux.

There was a great rap journalist who used to write for HHC who said that good rap is something that grabs you and doesn't let you go, not something that you had to force yourself not to hate. I think that goes for battle rap too.
Hell was a time that R&B artist were ashamed to even collab with rappers. Shit was looked at as beneath them. Shout out to Jody Watley lacing Rakim. Sure there was some before that, but didn't become trendy until the mid 90's. Now every other R&B song has a rap verse

Battle rap and underground rap always had and always will have a niche market, kind of like fetish porn. golden shower, ass smothering, bbc vids etc etc aren't going to be great conversation starters at most water coolers. same with who do you think had the better pen in the chilla jones/ rum nitty battle. to quote 2 short, get in where you fit in.

To piggy back of you last point, somebody (random poster) was trying to articulate why he liked 2pac and Scarface so much. He said when I hear them, I forget that they are even rapping sometimes, and it feels like they are having a conversation with me. Was a dope outlook to me, and I noticed more after listening to face again.
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Old 09-30-2020, 06:03 AM   #57
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Yeah I still think you're trippin if you think it's lame or socially awkward. Your hobbies are as socially awkward as you are. I see no shame in anyone saying they like Star Trek, Starwars or cosplay.

If you're worried about how you come across over something you're into, that's a YOU problem.
I can only speak for myself, I'm not tripping over that.. I don't think anyone here is tripping the way you describe

People are talking about sharing battles or inviting friends to events -- That's awkward because most hip hop fans don't enjoy it and won't react at all and would rather just put an album on

So shame about hobbies has nothing to do with it, it's awkward the same way that it's awkward when you make a bad joke and nobody laughs
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Old 09-30-2020, 06:11 AM   #58
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What is interesting about Big L is that he used battle rap punches in rap aimed at the mainstream and did it without reducing the impact of his music. Every battle rapper should take note at how effortlessly he does it as it shows there is a market for that style.
Big L also has that style of punch after punch and his punchlines are god tier

Also he battled on a beat, which is a huge improvement over acapella

Which is why I'd rather see battle rap be more punchline heavy instead of having more structured writing that just sounds like a speech to me, and the wordplay should only be used when it's truly worth it, rather than convenient opportunities for filler for bloated 3 minute rounds

I agree that Big L is a great example of how battle rap can be cool, I'm not talking about "cool" in the fashion sense, talking about:

C - charisma

A - Aesthetic and highly listenable

S - Supremely stylistic in some way

A - Accessible writing that catches people's attention ( and doesn't sound like a speech)


I was using "cool" as a convenient catch-all word for all of those criteria, for now on the term "cool" will be replaced with the new term, "CASA" (pronounced in the Spanish way) so people don't confuse it with words such as "social trends / fashions" and "societal expectations"

But Big L has far more "CASA" than battle rappers today speaks to my whole point...

If a battle rapper doesn't have CASA then he a bum, plain and simple

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Old 09-30-2020, 02:25 PM   #59
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Big L also has that style of punch after punch and his punchlines are god tier

Also he battled on a beat, which is a huge improvement over acapella

Which is why I'd rather see battle rap be more punchline heavy instead of having more structured writing that just sounds like a speech to me, and the wordplay should only be used when it's truly worth it, rather than convenient opportunities for filler for bloated 3 minute rounds

I agree that Big L is a great example of how battle rap can be cool, I'm not talking about "cool" in the fashion sense, talking about:

C - charisma

A - Aesthetic and highly listenable

S - Supremely stylistic in some way

A - Accessible writing that catches people's attention ( and doesn't sound like a speech)


I was using "cool" as a convenient catch-all word for all of those criteria, for now on the term "cool" will be replaced with the new term, "CASA" (pronounced in the Spanish way) so people don't confuse it with words such as "social trends / fashions" and "societal expectations"

But Big L has far more "CASA" than battle rappers today speaks to my whole point...

If a battle rapper doesn't have CASA then he a bum, plain and simple
I support the casa usage

Salute
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Old 10-01-2020, 01:07 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Emancee View Post
What is interesting about Big L is that he used battle rap punches in rap aimed at the mainstream and did it without reducing the impact of his music. Every battle rapper should take note at how effortlessly he does it as it shows there is a market for that style and that it is more about delivering flawlessly and charismatically on-beat than fans not feeling the battle rap style on beat. As for the GOAT battler turned rapper, definitely between him and BIG, although Slug's battling (and music, lol) is a definite guilty pleasure.
i really liked Big L's freestyles. he made it cool to have skill... same with big pun.

speaking of pun, dream shatterer is a classic battle song.
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Old 10-01-2020, 03:22 AM   #61
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What is interesting about Big L is that he used battle rap punches in rap aimed at the mainstream and did it without reducing the impact of his music. Every battle rapper should take note at how effortlessly he does it as it shows there is a market for that style and that it is more about delivering flawlessly and charismatically on-beat than fans not feeling the battle rap style on beat. As for the GOAT battler turned rapper, definitely between him and BIG, although Slug's battling (and music, lol) is a definite guilty pleasure.
Big L (RIP), Notorious BIG (RIP) and Slug never really battled lol. I'm joking and being deliberately caustic. But seriously if Notorious BIG and Big L were "battlers" then surely every rapper began as a "battler", and neither Biggie nor Big L are anywhere near to being the greatest rappers of all time imo.

Big L's lyrics haven't aged tremendously well to me. That brand of "set up-punchline" braggadocio with consistent 2-3 syllable multi rhyme patterns sound impressive to the lowest common denominator of listeners who don't comprehend the technical basics for structuring bars or haven't been exposed to either sophisticated lyricism or really imaginative or experimental lyricism. I really like all of Big L's discography, but he's nowhere near one of the greatest rappers of the 90s even, let alone of all time.
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Old 10-01-2020, 03:33 AM   #62
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yep, as far as I can tell, he is criminally underrated
Nah Big L (RIP) is overrated.
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Old 10-01-2020, 06:36 AM   #63
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Big L (RIP), Notorious BIG (RIP) and Slug never really battled lol. I'm joking and being deliberately caustic. But seriously if Notorious BIG and Big L were "battlers" then surely every rapper began as a "battler", and neither Biggie nor Big L are anywhere near to being the greatest rappers of all time imo.

Big L's lyrics haven't aged tremendously well to me. That brand of "set up-punchline" braggadocio with consistent 2-3 syllable multi rhyme patterns sound impressive to the lowest common denominator of listeners who don't comprehend the technical basics for structuring bars or haven't been exposed to either sophisticated lyricism or really imaginative or experimental lyricism. I really like all of Big L's discography, but he's nowhere near one of the greatest rappers of the 90s even, let alone of all time.
I fucks with Big L, he was one of the best at the grimy,evil, don't give a fuck, raw imagery type shit as opposed to some punchline machine that a lot of people seem to label him as. Yeah he had crazy bars, especially for his time, but I remember him more for that then the "ask Beavis I get nothing butt head line lol

"I wasn't poor, I was po, I couldn't afford the O-R" "This ain't Cali, we do walk by's " "Shot his granny through the peep hole" "I don't care if I catch aids" "I'll send you to meet your ancesstors type of shit is what he was known for more than punchlines imo

Hard to rate somebody properly that died at 24. He really doesn't have a lot of material out either. people tend to get rated a bit higher after they die, so possible he could be overrated to some.
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Old 10-01-2020, 06:59 AM   #64
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Big L (RIP), Notorious BIG (RIP) and Slug never really battled lol. I'm joking and being deliberately caustic. But seriously if Notorious BIG and Big L were "battlers" then surely every rapper began as a "battler", and neither Biggie nor Big L are anywhere near to being the greatest rappers of all time imo.

Big L's lyrics haven't aged tremendously well to me. That brand of "set up-punchline" braggadocio with consistent 2-3 syllable multi rhyme patterns sound impressive to the lowest common denominator of listeners who don't comprehend the technical basics for structuring bars or haven't been exposed to either sophisticated lyricism or really imaginative or experimental lyricism. I really like all of Big L's discography, but he's nowhere near one of the greatest rappers of the 90s even, let alone of all time.
Wow! Literally disagree with 80%-plus of this post.

Your first point, I agree; however, battle rap being its own thing is a relatively new thing. Might Big L have been the Tsu Surf of a battle rap scene if one existed back in the days, who knows? He existed in a scene where battling was something you did to sharpen your skills for a record contract.

For me Big L's dope shit is timeless. The lines above that ass2myface quotes would kill on URL or any stage like that. Also are you really listening to him? He didn't do that simple style post Children of the Corn. I remember when I first heard that freestyle where he uses like 5 different musical rhythms and ends it with that whole 'done done it again/ wonderful figures' part, it ruined my work out because it was so hype I forgot to keep lifting, lol. Pun is the only other rapper who had that effect on me.

Is it full of multiple layers and pretentious poetry? No. Is it dope and crazy effective at what it does? Yep. Save wack overwritten bars for the nerds. No Fresco, lol.

Not touching that 'sophisicated lyricism' part because I can tell this is heading into a Aesop Rock/MF Doom/Sage Francis is the GOAT-type argument, which are fighting words round my parts...

Biggie is in contention for the GOAT by a lot of rap fans. I think what you mean is 'I don't like Biggie, therefore...'. What I personally like about Biggie is how he could say things effectively in a single bar. The one that everyone always quotes is 'either you sell crack rock or you got a wicked jump shot', which says more in a line than most of the 'deep' rappers can say in a song.
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Old 10-01-2020, 07:46 AM   #65
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Nah Big L (RIP) is overrated.
You do know how unknown Big L is outside of NY and niche rap circles like this, right?
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Old 10-01-2020, 09:50 AM   #66
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For me Big L's dope shit is timeless. The lines above that ass2myface quotes would kill on URL or any stage like that. Also are you really listening to him? He didn't do that simple style post Children of the Corn. I remember when I first heard that freestyle where he uses like 5 different musical rhythms and ends it with that whole 'done done it again/ wonderful figures' part, it ruined my work out because it was so hype I forgot to keep lifting, lol. Pun is the only other rapper who had that effect on me.

Is it full of multiple layers and pretentious poetry? No. Is it dope and crazy effective at what it does? Yep. Save wack overwritten bars for the nerds. No Fresco, lol.

Not touching that 'sophisicated lyricism' part because I can tell this is heading into a Aesop Rock/MF Doom/Sage Francis is the GOAT-type argument, which are fighting words round my parts...

Biggie is in contention for the GOAT by a lot of rap fans. I think what you mean is 'I don't like Biggie, therefore...'. What I personally like about Biggie is how he could say things effectively in a single bar. The one that everyone always quotes is 'either you sell crack rock or you got a wicked jump shot', which says more in a line than most of the 'deep' rappers can say in a song.
Big L was dope, so was Big Pun (RIP), no question. I think Big L's delivery and vocal presence were top-notch and whilst, on reflection, I think his punchlines were too simplistic, some still evoke a bit of a reaction outta me. For me though, in addition to style and flamboyance which Big L mastered, to be an elite rapper you either need to be sophisticated and erudite, or unconventional and innovative, or really socio-politically conscious, or introspective and emotional, or a fusion of all four. Big L didn't fulfill that criteria as successfully as many other artists imo.

Yeah I never totally understood people's reverence for Notorious BIG. I do think his debut album was decent, but his sophomore album was mostly disappointing to me. I do actually like both of Big L's albums in addition to the miscellaneous unreleased archives/remixes.

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You do know how unknown Big L is outside of NY and niche rap circles like this, right?
Interesting. I'm not from anywhere near NYC and I was familiar with Big L by the time I was 14 before I had time to get fully invested in Hip-Hop subculture. Honestly I liked Big L more when I was 14.
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Old 10-01-2020, 10:47 AM   #67
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Big L was dope, so was Big Pun (RIP), no question. I think Big L's delivery and vocal presence were top-notch and whilst, on reflection, I think his punchlines were too simplistic, some still evoke a bit of a reaction outta me. For me though, in addition to style and flamboyance which Big L mastered, to be an elite rapper you either need to be sophisticated and erudite, or unconventional and innovative, or really socio-politically conscious, or introspective and emotional, or a fusion of all four. Big L didn't fulfill that criteria as successfully as many other artists imo.

Yeah I never totally understood people's reverence for Notorious BIG. I do think his debut album was decent, but his sophomore album was mostly disappointing to me. I do actually like both of Big L's albums in addition to the miscellaneous unreleased archives/remixes.



Interesting. I'm not from anywhere near NYC and I was familiar with Big L by the time I was 14 before I had time to get fully invested in Hip-Hop subculture. Honestly I liked Big L more when I was 14.
Keep in mind L was from Harlem and was popular from around 95-2000. His punchlines were HARD at the time. “Ask beavis I get nothin but head”. “I’m so ahead of my time my parents haven’t met yet” plus his Ebonics song was so well done.

Pun was definitely more complex and popularized multi stacking. Some of my favorite rhymes being “wearing the virus acquired immune deficiency dishin his dick in every thick promiscuous fish in the sea” and his famous line in Dream Shatterer “sometimes rhymin I blow my own mind like nirvana”

These lines wouldn’t be crazy now but for the time (pun was around like 98-2000) they were crazy creative.
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Old 10-01-2020, 11:16 AM   #68
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Big L was dope, so was Big Pun (RIP), no question. I think Big L's delivery and vocal presence were top-notch and whilst, on reflection, I think his punchlines were too simplistic, some still evoke a bit of a reaction outta me. For me though, in addition to style and flamboyance which Big L mastered, to be an elite rapper you either need to be sophisticated and erudite, or unconventional and innovative, or really socio-politically conscious, or introspective and emotional, or a fusion of all four. Big L didn't fulfill that criteria as successfully as many other artists imo.

Yeah I never totally understood people's reverence for Notorious BIG. I do think his debut album was decent, but his sophomore album was mostly disappointing to me. I do actually like both of Big L's albums in addition to the miscellaneous unreleased archives/remixes.

Interesting. I'm not from anywhere near NYC and I was familiar with Big L by the time I was 14 before I had time to get fully invested in Hip-Hop subculture. Honestly I liked Big L more when I was 14.
I do know what you mean. With Big L, it was very much what you see is what you get. He never really had anything but hard punchlines and flows, but he had both of them in abundance. There wasn't really a lot of depth, but it's like asking for depth from Spice1, Redman, Cani or Lady of Rage, it's not really what they do.

It's interesting though that you don't like Biggie as he gives a lot of that. Everything from retrospective to gangsta to blinged out to storytelling to doing Bone Thugs' style better than them. Haha! I guess maybe it just isn't for you, but pretty much the reason why people like Biggie is because he could do so many different styles well, which was one in a million back then.
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Old 10-01-2020, 11:26 AM   #69
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Yeah I never totally understood people's reverence for Notorious BIG. I do think his debut album was decent, but his sophomore album was mostly disappointing to me. I do actually like both of Big L's albums in addition to the miscellaneous unreleased archives/remixes.
For me, what biggie excelled in was his flow. Like Big L you could tell that this dude can just SPIT. I loved rappers who had that raw talent and could spit over any beat. Biggie and L really could do that.
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Old 10-01-2020, 12:38 PM   #70
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Big L (RIP), Notorious BIG (RIP) and Slug never really battled lol. I'm joking and being deliberately caustic. But seriously if Notorious BIG and Big L were "battlers" then surely every rapper began as a "battler", and neither Biggie nor Big L are anywhere near to being the greatest rappers of all time imo.

Big L's lyrics haven't aged tremendously well to me. That brand of "set up-punchline" braggadocio with consistent 2-3 syllable multi rhyme patterns sound impressive to the lowest common denominator of listeners who don't comprehend the technical basics for structuring bars or haven't been exposed to either sophisticated lyricism or really imaginative or experimental lyricism. I really like all of Big L's discography, but he's nowhere near one of the greatest rappers of the 90s even, let alone of all time.
slug was in scribble jam, what more do you want from that era?
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Old 10-01-2020, 04:55 PM   #71
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slug was in scribble jam, what more do you want from that era?
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Old 10-01-2020, 05:30 PM   #72
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Lets not forget how ill Big L's beats were..DITC, Lord Finesse

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Old 10-01-2020, 05:34 PM   #73
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For me, what biggie excelled in was his flow. Like Big L you could tell that this dude can just SPIT. I loved rappers who had that raw talent and could spit over any beat. Biggie and L really could do that.
A critical element of Biggie's success was style. When the Hypnotize video came out it was clear that BIG was larger than life as a public figure.
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Old 10-01-2020, 05:39 PM   #74
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Big L (RIP), Notorious BIG (RIP) and Slug never really battled lol. I'm joking and being deliberately caustic. But seriously if Notorious BIG and Big L were "battlers" then surely every rapper began as a "battler", and neither Biggie nor Big L are anywhere near to being the greatest rappers of all time imo.

this was a battle when it was released
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Old 10-01-2020, 06:52 PM   #75
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Lets not forget how ill Big L's beats were..DITC, Lord Finesse
I have to say that big l had some dope beats. The one below is one of my favorites. But honestly few of big l's beats were pretty weak. At least to me I guess.


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Old 10-01-2020, 07:07 PM   #76
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I have to say that big l had some dope beats. The one below is one of my favorites. But honestly few of big l's beats were pretty weak. At least to me I guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUawT_tl7sg
ill song.. I was stoked when I found this on vinyl for .99 a few years ago
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Old 10-01-2020, 10:38 PM   #77
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I fucks with Big L, he was one of the best at the grimy,evil, don't give a fuck, raw imagery type shit as opposed to some punchline machine that a lot of people seem to label him as.
imagery is so underrated -- I have a really vivid imagination so I visualize pretty much any line I can and my pet peeve is when battlers have a bunch of wordplay but visually, it's empty -- My favorite lines are the ones that I see in my mind as a cartoon

Example: "I'm like a baby bird the way I pop outta shell" - Imagine a baby bird version of conceited popping out of his shell, opens his beak and there's a huge gun barrel poppoing out of his mouth and shoots

Especially today, we live in a very visual society and if someone's lines are complicated, they better at least put a vivid and entertaining image in someone's mind, or they're going to fall asleep
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Old 10-01-2020, 11:43 PM   #78
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imagery is so underrated -- I have a really vivid imagination so I visualize pretty much any line I can and my pet peeve is when battlers have a bunch of wordplay but visually, it's empty -- My favorite lines are the ones that I see in my mind as a cartoon

Example: "I'm like a baby bird the way I pop outta shell" - Imagine a baby bird version of conceited popping out of his shell, opens his beak and there's a huge gun barrel poppoing out of his mouth and shoots

Especially today, we live in a very visual society and if someone's lines are complicated, they better at least put a vivid and entertaining image in someone's mind, or they're going to fall asleep
How long until there are Augmented Reality effects in battle rap. Do you smell what Profess is cooking?
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Old 10-02-2020, 12:38 AM   #79
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I do know what you mean. With Big L, it was very much what you see is what you get. He never really had anything but hard punchlines and flows, but he had both of them in abundance. There wasn't really a lot of depth, but it's like asking for depth from Spice1, Redman, Cani or Lady of Rage, it's not really what they do.

It's interesting though that you don't like Biggie as he gives a lot of that. Everything from retrospective to gangsta to blinged out to storytelling to doing Bone Thugs' style better than them. Haha! I guess maybe it just isn't for you, but pretty much the reason why people like Biggie is because he could do so many different styles well, which was one in a million back then.
Spice 1 was a bit more informative and emphatic about how hazardous gang warfare is and how unjustifiably neglected and oppressed his community was, later in his career he did some sentimental songs I liked. Big L was mostly, though not entirely, bravado, and Big L did a lot of "rapping about being good at rapping". Spice 1 also did the Das EFX scatman style vocalizations which I liked. I found Spice 1's delivery more intoxicating and mellifluous than Big L's. Redman was one of the first rappers to incorporate psychedelia, he was more original and eccentric than Big L which I liked.

Nah I appreciate Notorious BIG, just not one of my favorites, his 97 album was just too pop oriented for me, and it's a damn shame he wasn't able to improve upon it. But Notorious BIG never perfected Bone-Thugs signature "chopper double time/singing" bipolar blueprint.
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Old 10-02-2020, 01:56 AM   #80
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Keep in mind L was from Harlem and was popular from around 95-2000. His punchlines were HARD at the time. “Ask beavis I get nothin but head”. “I’m so ahead of my time my parents haven’t met yet” plus his Ebonics song was so well done.

Pun was definitely more complex and popularized multi stacking. Some of my favorite rhymes being “wearing the virus acquired immune deficiency dishin his dick in every thick promiscuous fish in the sea” and his famous line in Dream Shatterer “sometimes rhymin I blow my own mind like nirvana”

These lines wouldn’t be crazy now but for the time (pun was around like 98-2000) they were crazy creative.
I definitely respect Big Pun, Big L's music resonated with me a bit more. I'm not a massive fan of either though. Big Pun's lexicon was pretty respectable, but a lot of his bars were filler bravado or filler materialism, and I found his delivery a tad monotonous. Whilst Big L had less filler his punchlines do not exhilarate me. If you wanna listen to rappers who did KOTD/URL style punchlines I'd recommend Chino XL and Vakill, they were better rappers overall than Big L and Big Pun imo.

To their credit Big L and Big Pun both exuded authenticity I suppose.
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