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Old 08-30-2020, 12:24 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by ErikForeman View Post
Impossible for me to speak my mind on a topic like this because I'm conflicted. The simple end is I know avo is not racist, but I also know he's been a friend to battle rappers who brush along those lines and get major benefit of the doubt. He gives them endless spotlight as well. Say what you want about that.

He's also tried his hand at throwing his weight around to get others canceled for less reason. Major oversight, yes. Not worth ending a person over though.

The lost factor is that none of it matters cuz we ain't the ones who had to hear the jokes (they weren't funny) and supported him the day before regarding caffeine. They're gonna feel a way about it and the timing was anything but ideal. I have trouble judging avo cuz I have things I've voiced politically that I now changed my stance on as well. I've met avo, I know his true character, his main fault is in being impressionable. Not evil.
and while it not up to us what happens to avocado, i hope we can use this as a learning experience. also, people CAN change. i think sometimes it takes being called out a few times for us to look inside ourselves.
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Old 08-30-2020, 01:35 PM   #82
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Only aspect I donít get is the Aye Verb angle, seems like Avo just thought of the first guy that came to mind and made a joke about prepping for them instead of taking care of his kids. Donít see how that can be interpreted as a direct shot at Verb in anyway.
Verb was pretty much forced to respond because of being mentioned in the video and tagged in so much of the discussion. He really didn't have much of a choice but to diss Avo regardless of his true feelings. I doubt Verb cares all that much, but he isn't about to let some white boy talk shit about him.
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Old 08-30-2020, 09:19 PM   #83
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Do you remember Music for the Advancement of Hiphop? This totally pretentious collection of songs that were supposed to start some incredible new movement by saying nothing in a weird voice.

This whole thing reminds me of that.
Hah, YES! This is exactly what I had in mind. It's really bad attempts of poetry... and music...
meanwhile Nas getting invited to Ivy league schools to discuss his lyrics.

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Old 08-30-2020, 09:24 PM   #84
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Shit, not seen an rmbva thread with this many comments for a while
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Old 08-30-2020, 09:29 PM   #85
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Shit, not seen an rmbva thread with this many comments for a while
We in here baby.

Maybes Avo can come back too, seems like the only safe space for dude
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Old 08-30-2020, 09:45 PM   #86
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Yeah. I think 24/7 is an asshole for those ‘jokes’. Which were really just ‘haha, black people’.

But Avo just made a mistake. His issue seems to me to be more that he just goes with what the room is saying and shit, I think most of us would hate to be judged on everything we laughed at to fit in or didn’t call out at the time.

People have to be allowed to change, otherwise what’s the point of anti-racism? He apologised and to me (tbf I am English, but half black tho) that’s enough. However can’t really see this being let go for a good minute
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Old 08-31-2020, 12:21 AM   #87
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Old 08-31-2020, 12:35 AM   #88
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Yeah. I think 24/7 is an asshole for those Ďjokesí. Which were really just Ďhaha, black peopleí.

But Avo just made a mistake. His issue seems to me to be more that he just goes with what the room is saying and shit, I think most of us would hate to be judged on everything we laughed at to fit in or didnít call out at the time.

People have to be allowed to change, otherwise whatís the point of anti-racism? He apologised and to me (tbf I am English, but half black tho) thatís enough. However canít really see this being let go for a good minute
Well put.
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Old 08-31-2020, 02:12 AM   #89
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Old 08-31-2020, 01:20 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Casual View Post
Only aspect I don’t get is the Aye Verb angle, seems like Avo just thought of the first guy that came to mind and made a joke about prepping for them instead of taking care of his kids. Don’t see how that can be interpreted as a direct shot at Verb in anyway.
One of the weirder pieces of this for sure. Aye Verb initially (and possibly still) thought that, in the clip, where Avo added on to the jokes saying "[not right now son] I'm trying TO BEAT Verb" that he was saying "I'm trying to BE VERB"

When Cal pointed this out, he was called a coon and caping for Avo
Verb said Avo had multiple days to say somethin (regarding this dispute of interpretation) and since he hasn't that proves that Verb must be right in his analysis.

Others chimed in suggesting that Avo wouldn't say anything because regardless of Verb's false interpretation of that one word that Avo was in the wrong overall.

That kinda leans towards my position on it: Yes I do think (know) that he said "beat Verb" and not "be Verb" but, although that may have been his triggering instance in the clip, they were straight up joking about black men being bad fathers anyway so Verb's reaction is still valid.
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Old 08-31-2020, 04:11 PM   #91
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Found an old thread semi-related to this at the time. Makes me wonder what Ness Lee thinks of what's happening now.

https://www.rmbva.com/showthread.php?t=18949&page=2
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Old 08-31-2020, 04:13 PM   #92
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One of the weirder pieces of this for sure. Aye Verb initially (and possibly still) thought that, in the clip, where Avo added on to the jokes saying "[not right now son] I'm trying TO BEAT Verb" that he was saying "I'm trying to BE VERB"

When Cal pointed this out, he was called a coon and caping for Avo
Verb said Avo had multiple days to say somethin (regarding this dispute of interpretation) and since he hasn't that proves that Verb must be right in his analysis.

Others chimed in suggesting that Avo wouldn't say anything because regardless of Verb's false interpretation of that one word that Avo was in the wrong overall.

That kinda leans towards my position on it: Yes I do think (know) that he said "beat Verb" and not "be Verb" but, although that may have been his triggering instance in the clip, they were straight up joking about black men being bad fathers anyway so Verb's reaction is still valid.
Verb talked to Angry Fan last night. AF explained that Avo didn't actually say that.
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Old 08-31-2020, 05:44 PM   #93
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One of the weirder pieces of this for sure. Aye Verb initially (and possibly still) thought that, in the clip, where Avo added on to the jokes saying "[not right now son] I'm trying TO BEAT Verb" that he was saying "I'm trying to BE VERB"
"Too busy writing Disney bars... Not now son I'm gonna beat A Verb"
-- "beat" seems to make way more sense in context...

I wouldn't even know how to interpret the meaning of "Not now son, I'm gonna be A Verb"... But Avo was also slurring his words and maybe not pronouncing the the final "t" in "beat"?

Now now.. I'm gonna be (noun).. How is that a natural sentence in English?

And what exactly would it mean?


If someone says, "that movie was ba" I'm gonna assume they didn't pronounce the final "d" clearly rather than assume that they are making a sheep sound to describe the movie, unless it's a pun, but then you'd expect the "ba" to be exaggerated

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Old 08-31-2020, 05:58 PM   #94
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"Too busy writing Disney bars... Not now son I'm gonna beat A Verb"
-- "beat" seems to make way more sense in context...

I wouldn't even know how to interpret the meaning of "Not now son, I'm gonna be A Verb"... But Avo was also slurring his words and maybe not pronouncing the the final "t" in "beat"?

Now now.. I'm gonna be (noun).. How is that a natural sentence in English?

And what exactly would it mean?


If someone says, "that movie was ba" I'm gonna assume they didn't pronounce the final "d" clearly rather than assume that they are making a sheep sound to describe the movie, unless it's a pun, but then you'd expect the "ba" to be exaggerated
Ideally speaking, right? I think Verb made a snap judgement in a fit of rage.
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Old 08-31-2020, 09:05 PM   #95
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Ideally speaking, right? I think Verb made a snap judgement in a fit of rage.
Oh yeah I mean, who wouldn't, right? And it's not like you would want to play the video back and reassess it either.
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Old 08-31-2020, 09:23 PM   #96
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Oh yeah I mean, who wouldn't, right? And it's not like you would want to play the video back and reassess it either.
I hear ya
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:40 PM   #97
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Old 09-01-2020, 03:46 AM   #98
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Or you could stand up for your friend. If everybody gets canceled because they laughed at a racist joke from years ago, NOBODY will have a job.
The best counter argument you can level against cancel culture is the Soul Khan redemption. Soul Khan's battle content in 2009-2010 was as homophobic/transphobic as any battle-rapper, and now he utilizes his notoriety to champion the most progressive and woke missions. If Soul Khan was digitally/commercially ostracized, oppressed minorities would have one fewer influential comrade.
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Old 09-01-2020, 05:39 AM   #99
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It was surprisingly out of character of Avocado to applaud 24/7's racist comment, but I think it's conceivable that he would not react that way currently, and it's highly possible he is genuinely remorseful, and he's not just apologizing because he got exposed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Avocado was an alcoholic in 2014 when this was filmed? The alcoholism and psychological instability it produces would have distorted his judgement in that situation. If battle-rap leagues want to refuse Avo's services, I do think they should have their prerogative to do so, whether you like it or not, providing they aren't violating a contract. Avocado will have no shortage of job offers though.

But sadly 24/7's comment is probably very typical in most environments when black people are not present. Perhaps I'm too cynical, but if you don't conscientiously educate yourself on the historical injustices, inequalities and traumas different races, nationalities and even entire societies have been subjected to, and you don't conscientiously try to debunk racist pseudo intellectual doctrines, I predict that you will evolve to be at least slightly racist.
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Old 09-01-2020, 08:13 AM   #100
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But sadly 24/7's comment is probably very typical in most environments when black people are not present. Perhaps I'm too cynical, but if you don't conscientiously educate yourself on the historical injustices, inequalities and traumas different races, nationalities and even entire societies have been subjected to, and you don't conscientiously try to debunk racist pseudo intellectual doctrines, I predict that you will evolve to be at least slightly racist.
This is kinda my feeling to. Overt racism is easy recognized and treated appropriately, whereas the more subtle less obvious stuff is much more insidious. I'm not going to put some board members on blast, but the amount of times we've had to explain to people that the mandingo stereotype (That all black people are hyper sexual) is ridiculous, but a lot of people have just heard that black guys will fuck anything; therefore, that must be the case.

The same seems to be true of 24/7. He was making the joke without thinking about where the likely source of that 'humor' was coming from (My guess is that 'black guys can't be good parents' comes from the mandingo stereotype too).
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Old 09-01-2020, 04:43 PM   #101
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Avo has done more than enough with his apologies and dialogues. He has been on a tour of every podcast in battle rap spending 3-4 hours a day discussing race and the issues with racism. He has learned a valuable lesson. Lets move on.

I basically said the same thing on twitter and someone retweeted me to "go to hell". People coming out of the wood works with hate everywhere. So lame.
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Old 09-01-2020, 05:33 PM   #102
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Avo has done more than enough with his apologies and dialogues. He has been on a tour of every podcast in battle rap spending 3-4 hours a day discussing race and the issues with racism. He has learned a valuable lesson. Lets move on.

I basically said the same thing on twitter and someone retweeted me to "go to hell". People coming out of the wood works with hate everywhere. So lame.
i just don't think it is, or should be, up to us (white ppl) to tell everyone when it's time to move on from this
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Old 09-01-2020, 05:34 PM   #103
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Avo has done more than enough with his apologies and dialogues. He has been on a tour of every podcast in battle rap spending 3-4 hours a day discussing race and the issues with racism. He has learned a valuable lesson. Lets move on.

I basically said the same thing on twitter and someone retweeted me to "go to hell". People coming out of the wood works with hate everywhere. So lame.
If someone wants to say that Avo was soft for not checking 24/7, then that is fair. But at the end of the day, he has shown grit by confronting this controversy head-on.
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Old 09-01-2020, 05:59 PM   #104
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i just don't think it is, or should be, up to us (white ppl) to tell everyone when it's time to move on from this
Right. i get that. I am talking about this particular instance though. In my opinion, for him laughing at a racist joke, he has done enough to warrant battle rap society and society in general accepting his apology. People can think what they want and it's their choice not to accept but in my take, I think he has shown accountability for his actions.
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Old 09-01-2020, 06:11 PM   #105
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Right. i get that. I am talking about this particular instance though. In my opinion, for him laughing at a racist joke, he has done enough to warrant battle rap society and society in general accepting his apology. People can think what they want and it's their choice not to accept but in my take, I think he has shown accountability for his actions.
While I agree with you. There have been a lot of black people dying as of late due to systemic racism, the NBA boycotted games for a bit. Black people are fed up and it was tough timing for avo to be exposed. It’s really kind of irrelevant what us white people think of the avo sitch. If I were a person of color, I’d be more than pissed if an ally especially let me down.

Now that said, what avo did certainly isn’t close to the worst thing in the world and I think he’s dealt with it well considering the circumstances. But we just don’t know what it’s like. : /
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Old 09-01-2020, 06:18 PM   #106
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While I agree with you. There have been a lot of black people dying as of late due to systemic racism, the NBA boycotted games for a bit. Black people are fed up and it was tough timing for avo to be exposed. Itís really kind of irrelevant what us white people think of the avo sitch. If I were a person of color, Iíd be more than pissed if an ally especially let me down.

Now that said, what avo did certainly isnít close to the worst thing in the world and I think heís dealt with it well considering the circumstances. But we just donít know what itís like. : /
Yep. I agree with you.
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Old 09-01-2020, 08:21 PM   #107
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I didn't see any one post this yet, 24/7 here addressing this clip back in 2015 (before it was leaked I think?). I'm not saying this excuses it in anyway, but its weird to me that this is suddenly more controversial now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuFVk7che4M

addresses it twice:

6:55
9:30
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Old 09-01-2020, 08:25 PM   #108
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imo it was a joke in poor taste, but of all the wild racist shit people have said in battle rap - why is this the one that has ppl trying to get a battle rapper canceled? caustic (just to name one) has more racist than this openly written into most of his battles
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Old 09-01-2020, 08:37 PM   #109
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imo it was a joke in poor taste, but of all the wild racist shit people have said in battle rap - why is this the one that has ppl trying to get a battle rapper canceled? caustic (just to name one) has more racist than this openly written into most of his battles
I worry about some people's catalogs not aging well but that's what you get when you sign up for this.
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Old 09-02-2020, 03:54 AM   #110
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Alright so Iíve had some time to think about this stuff.

I was talking to some rmbva friends on the discord the other day, and I said that that I had some strong feelings about this stuff in the past, and my opinion hasnít really changed, but I donít feel as strongly about it as I did years ago. And thatís still true. But I wanna emphasize the fact that my opinion hasnít changed.

Dude was always on some funnystyle shit, and I had been saying it for years. It wasnít just that one bad bars episode, it was a pattern of behavior. In the past couple years, I thought it was kinda crazy that all these Black ppl started gassing him up, but I knew the overwhelming majority of those ppl had no clue about any of the history on this side of things. Funny how he ďchangedĒ when kotd fell all the way off and URL started breaking records in terms of money and attention.

I mean, the last thing about this I posted on this board was about him trying to cancel Jeff for calling passwurdsí white wife and mostly white children ďwhiteĒ. Thatís still crazy to me. The virtue signaling really rubbed me the wrong way, especially considering who it was coming from.

I wonít say avocado is a racist. I think the guy is just really unprincipled, and doesnít really have any kind of constitution. Heís the type to not be racist, and not not be racist, but still disrespect Black people on some racist shit because racism is totally rad and hilarious in his peer group.. which also isnít racist.

Hereís my thing, currently: Black people are way too forgiving. If it were up to me, avocado would have to sit down, for good, and never see another bag off Black American culture. Heíll be fine. Heís a talented dude and he can make money elsewhere. But no other ethnic group would allow someone outside their group to disrespect them like this and still allow them to make money off of their culture. But being that Black people are very forgiving (to a fault), heíll probably be back, unfortunately. See, battle rapís fan base is comprised of mostly scumbags who couldnít care one way or the other. And a lot of the Black battle rap fans are also unprincipled like avocado. Not only that, a lot of these Black battle rappers and battle rap fans live for white validation. Itís sad to watch. A lot of Black battle rap fans have this unhealthy parasocial relationship with this guy who they think is their nice, innocent white friend. And they feel comfort in being validated by a white person. Itís sick shit. Theyíre the type to think that the ďnwordĒ and ďcrackerĒ have the same value. Or that if they try hard enough, in a roasting session, they can out-racist a white person. They need to think this way because reality is too dark for them deal with, so theyíve convinced themselves to believe that they are equal to white people in society, and sometimes they need a white person to validate this belief by disrespecting them.

So Idk, whatever happens happens
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Old 09-03-2020, 12:01 AM   #111
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imo it was a joke in poor taste, but of all the wild racist shit people have said in battle rap - why is this the one that has ppl trying to get a battle rapper canceled? caustic (just to name one) has more racist than this openly written into most of his battles
Obviously 24/7's comment has evoked more indignation because he did it in a real life conversation, admittedly it was a "jokey" informal conversation but a non fictional conversation none the less, so he was being at least partially serious. Battle-Rap, art and to a lesser extent stand up comedy is mostly fictional, viewers recognize it's theatre, and people are literally acting and adopting alter egos, it's not usually a fully accurate reflection of their ethics, but perhaps I shouldn't be as lenient as I am towards art though. I will also admit that rapping racist/homophobic bars is more problematic than say "gun-talk" in a battle, because you're encouraging viewers to contribute to systems that persecute and endanger of millions of people, whereas by expressing homicidal fantasies at worst you're encouraging viewers to endanger maybe 10-20 people in an isolated act of violence, which is still irresponsible of the artist I suppose.

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Old 09-03-2020, 12:13 AM   #112
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That's how I understand it, but also using stereotypes and social problems to belittle and bully others when they aren't around which is despicable...

It also it feels like there is an unconscious idea that top x% of race x is in the same league as us" kinda thing. Sort of a racist ven diagram if you will. But who knows if it's even race specific, they may feel the same way about their fellow whites, many do. A lot of people are narcissists and elitists, and they have a general feeling of superiority that is larger than just racism...

Also, a lot of people who seem racist may just be narcissists who consider themselves to be elite, only what they perceive to be the top x% of any race, including white, is good enough for them... btw I think narcissism is contributing a lot more to racism than some would assume. And narcissism is a widespread and toxic social problem, independent of race relations.

It can also just be a case of having "conditions of worth" set for people... Any person, like you have to conform to a certain set of standards to be categorized as "good" - Whose set of standards get to become the preeminent standards in the world? Who gets to decide what those standards are? Carl Rogers said that to promote psychological growth humans need 2 things: Empathy and unconditional positive regard, if we deny any person this, we are basically toxic and holding them back from psychological growth -- And to think that we live in a society where people are walking around saying and doing things that basically amounts to "ME GOOD U BAD"

Furthermore, 24/7, as an unapologetic backpacker, seems to feel a genuine disdain for URL rappers, and I think that's where a lot of this behavior is coming from, from a backpacker vs the "gangster" style of rap... Like there are backpackers who would only listen to Biggie or Pun ironically. A lot of the whites going crazy for Head I.C.E. do so ironically, it's like, to be a true artist you have fit the ideal of a european poet to be truly artistic... There are lines that D-Lor wrote that, if Bender had said it, the backpackers would have lost their minds but D-Lor can't get the same love that Bender would because D-Lor doesn't fit their eurocentric image of what an intellectual juggernaut should look like.

I mean I know white backpackers and hipsters who listen to Ready 2 Die like it's a meme, it's an ironic thing, but I think Biggie is an American poet and one of the best in history and I wonder what percentage of people have really listened to that album and really felt it, on a human to human level, ya know? Like did you give Ready 2 Die the same chance to speak to you as art that you did when you listened to Eyedea? It's like.. Eyedea? "Hell yeah! He was a poet!" Biggie? "Haha, gimme the LOOT! nudge nudge"

I saw the same thing happen in Philosophy classes in University where "philosophy" actually means "European philosophy" because the philosophies of the east are (wrongly) relegated to "religion" and philosophies of the ancients outside of Greece or of indigenous people are relegated to cultural anthropology, egyptology, mythology, etc. It's a very eurocentric view of the world so I think a lot of backpackers, while appreciating hip hop culture, may do so with a very eurocentric perspective and even think that they have improved or corrected it by rebuilding it according to eurocentric standards of what an artist or poet should be like.
I think i completely and utterly missed this post when replying earlier but i'm more-or-less behind the entire first half here.

Class and social structure while related to race is not race and is a much more robust indicator of attitudes and bigotries.
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Old 09-03-2020, 12:32 AM   #113
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This is kinda my feeling to. Overt racism is easy recognized and treated appropriately, whereas the more subtle less obvious stuff is much more insidious. I'm not going to put some board members on blast, but the amount of times we've had to explain to people that the mandingo stereotype (That all black people are hyper sexual) is ridiculous, but a lot of people have just heard that black guys will fuck anything; therefore, that must be the case.

The same seems to be true of 24/7. He was making the joke without thinking about where the likely source of that 'humor' was coming from (My guess is that 'black guys can't be good parents' comes from the mandingo stereotype too).
Yeah racism like any other prejudice operates on a spectrum. You will have a very miniscule minority of lunatics at the extreme end of that spectrum who think that black and brown folks are genetically inferior and that primitivity is the only determining factor for why they have accomplished less on a global scale, on aggregate, than whites and north-east Asians. Almost everyone at least partially disagrees with that maniacal dogma, but a lot of people, maybe not a majority, but a massive minority, will oppose black and brown people moving to their predominantly white neighborhoods or attending schools with their white children, or they will assume that virtually no black or brown person graduates college, or if a disaster or emergency disproportionately impacted black and brown people they might feel less sympathetic towards the victims.

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Old 09-03-2020, 01:03 AM   #114
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I worry about some people's catalogs not aging well but that's what you get when you sign up for this.
Didn't J-Pro delete his catalog? If so, I wonder if he's the only one.
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Old 09-03-2020, 02:05 AM   #115
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Didn't J-Pro delete his catalog? If so, I wonder if he's the only one.
Yes I heard he asked to get them taken down because of his work. I heard he works a high profile job.
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Old 09-03-2020, 03:00 AM   #116
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Yes I heard he asked to get them taken down because of his work. I heard he works a high profile job.
I'm surprised more battle rappers don't pay the channels to delete their battles. They can predict how many extra views the content would receive without a removal and then just compensate the league with the money per fewer view they receive.

As someone who used to use Facebook many years ago I really wish Facebook instituted a policy where they automatically delete photos, comments, updates etc from every profile a few years after they were uploaded.

Now you mention it I may even delete a bunch of my old RMBVA comments, but it will be painful and feel too embarrassing for me to wade through the archives. I eternally feel embarrassed about and haunted by my horrible past.
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Old 09-03-2020, 05:29 AM   #117
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Now you mention it I may even delete a bunch of my old RMBVA comments, but it will be painful and feel too embarrassing for me to wade through the archives. I eternally feel embarrassed about and haunted by my horrible past.
I don't know if I'd worry about that. You were always a cool member on here. Even if you somehow managed to embarrass yourself on an internet forum about battle rap, you might be catastrophizing whatever you take away from that.
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Old 09-05-2020, 07:18 AM   #118
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I'm surprised more battle rappers don't pay the channels to delete their battles. They can predict how many extra views the content would receive without a removal and then just compensate the league with the money per fewer view they receive.

As someone who used to use Facebook many years ago I really wish Facebook instituted a policy where they automatically delete photos, comments, updates etc from every profile a few years after they were uploaded.

Now you mention it I may even delete a bunch of my old RMBVA comments, but it will be painful and feel too embarrassing for me to wade through the archives. I eternally feel embarrassed about and haunted by my horrible past.
I'd recommend therapy or an anti-depressant. Either way, talk to your primary. Your life sucks.
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Old 09-05-2020, 08:06 AM   #119
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I'm surprised more battle rappers don't pay the channels to delete their battles. They can predict how many extra views the content would receive without a removal and then just compensate the league with the money per fewer view they receive.
Didn't you get the memo? Everyone is cool with the violent imagery...
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Old 09-05-2020, 06:09 PM   #120
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Seems like Avo has done a 180 since the infamous 24/7 video. In his most recent release he appears to be anti-white now. Below, I'll paste a youtube comment directed at the video. The comment time stamps the 18:00 mark of the video


I'm gonna be flat out honest with you, Avo. Every single living human being is "a little bit racist". In-tribe/out-tribe thinking is baked into every human being. I'm not saying that this justifies racism, but honestly, it's absurd to single out "white people" when you say something like this. I understand why you said it, and I understand the immense pressure that you feel to prove that you're not some kind of a problematic white supremacist, but don't over-steer the ship and start playing that "white people are inherently bad" game.

At the end of the day, all humans look down on and mistreat people that they perceive as being in the out-tribe. Again, not saying this to justify racism, just saying, it's inherent in all of us, and it's really not a "white person problem". Anyone can be racist towards any race. It's up to us as civilized 21st century humans who are privileged enough to know better, to not actually be racist or lean into whatever inclinations we might have to treat people like 'others'.
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