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Old 09-02-2020, 07:21 AM   #41
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apart from Erik bringing the thread IQ down what the helll is going on here?

Some of these comments seem so fucking unhinged i MUST be missing something big... What did who say and why do we care?



As an abstract point made by multiple comments above of COURSE white people can say nigger/a. It is 100% dependent on context because its a fucking WORD and not an action.
If someone's using is disparagingly then they should get what's coming - if someone is using it historically, descriptively (i.e contextualising other related language), purely comedically (i.e no black person is being laughed at anywhere in the joke) or to have a discussion ABOUT the word - there is literally no good reason why someone of ANY colour shouldn't use the word.

As for why 'the N word' is the most bollocks phrase to come out of any human improvement effort, see Louis C.K's bit about it. It changes nothing. The linguistic and intentional effect of nigger/a and 'the N word' are exactly the same everywhere except the speaker's mouth.
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Old 09-02-2020, 12:58 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by StankDaddy View Post
apart from Erik bringing the thread IQ down what the helll is going on here?

Some of these comments seem so fucking unhinged i MUST be missing something big... What did who say and why do we care?



As an abstract point made by multiple comments above of COURSE white people can say nigger/a. It is 100% dependent on context because its a fucking WORD and not an action.
If someone's using is disparagingly then they should get what's coming - if someone is using it historically, descriptively (i.e contextualising other related language), purely comedically (i.e no black person is being laughed at anywhere in the joke) or to have a discussion ABOUT the word - there is literally no good reason why someone of ANY colour shouldn't use the word.

As for why 'the N word' is the most bollocks phrase to come out of any human improvement effort, see Louis C.K's bit about it. It changes nothing. The linguistic and intentional effect of nigger/a and 'the N word' are exactly the same everywhere except the speaker's mouth.
I thought the same. I’d quote the N word and I’d say it if there were lyrics but tbh man... it’s not up to us white people. The word has been damaging since slavery, through Jim Crow and up til now where blacks are being murdered in part due to systemic racism.

If black people, as a whole, want to ban the word then I think it’s up to them. Instead of thinking inside your bubble, I’d ask you to try to think from their perspective. I think years of slavery, Jim Crow and racism now gives them the right to have ownership(excuse my language) of the word. It’s the least we could do to give them at least a LITTLE power back.

Intellectually, you have a point that it’s a double standard for whites to not be able to use the word. But to think in those terms and not understand the history of racism is very myopic and self-serving.

Edit: and to your question: avocado was exposed for laughing at a racist joke told by 24/7 and toasting him. Avo was complicit but he apologized. What bothered black people was that avo was an ally to the black community , so it really hurt a lot of people of color. While 24/7 was more responsible for the joke, people expected better out of avocado. Cancel culture took over from there.

But to avo’s credit, he has faced this situation head on which I respect. 24/7 on the other hand did NOT respond to this and people called thhe school where he works and he probably will/has been fired.

While I side with the frustration on people of color towards racism, I absolutely HATE cancel culture. But it’s up to black people whether they want to forgive them or not.
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Old 09-02-2020, 03:13 PM   #43
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Edit: and to your question: avocado was exposed for laughing at a racist joke told by 24/7 and toasting him. Avo was complicit but he apologized. What bothered black people was that avo was an ally to the black community , so it really hurt a lot of people of color. While 24/7 was more responsible for the joke, people expected better out of avocado. Cancel culture took over from there.

But to avoís credit, he has faced this situation head on which I respect. 24/7 on the other hand did NOT respond to this and people called thhe school where he works and he probably will/has been fired.

While I side with the frustration on people of color towards racism, I absolutely HATE cancel culture. But itís up to black people whether they want to forgive them or not.

tbh i didn't really expect 24/7 to respond. he's not involved in the culture anymore. from his perspective he probably has nothing to gain by apologizing and just brings more attention to the whole thing. battle rap is a pretty small circle so he probably assumed if he just didn't say anything it wouldn't really impact him. obviously not the case, though im not sure an apology would have stopped people from reporting him to the school.

regarding the cancel culture, agreed in general but i do make exceptions when people are in a place of authority, which 24/7 is. obviously context is important, but i don't think he should be teaching our youth. i guess the problem comes when you step back and think about how a bunch of other teachers are probably doing the same shit it just isnt on camera.

there's been a similar situation up here in canada the last couple days, i guess someone uncovered a private rcmp (federal level police up here) group on facebook and there's a bunch of racist posts. on one hand, yeah it's private, but on another hand this is the fucking national police and imo you should be doing everything you can to weed these people out. i think there comes a point where if you're a public figure/have a power over the general public where privacy starts to matter less. i get it's a nuanced thing though.
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Old 09-02-2020, 03:37 PM   #44
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tbh i didn't really expect 24/7 to respond. he's not involved in the culture anymore. from his perspective he probably has nothing to gain by apologizing and just brings more attention to the whole thing. battle rap is a pretty small circle so he probably assumed if he just didn't say anything it wouldn't really impact him. obviously not the case, though im not sure an apology would have stopped people from reporting him to the school.

regarding the cancel culture, agreed in general but i do make exceptions when people are in a place of authority, which 24/7 is. obviously context is important, but i don't think he should be teaching our youth. i guess the problem comes when you step back and think about how a bunch of other teachers are probably doing the same shit it just isnt on camera.

there's been a similar situation up here in canada the last couple days, i guess someone uncovered a private rcmp (federal level police up here) group on facebook and there's a bunch of racist posts. on one hand, yeah it's private, but on another hand this is the fucking national police and imo you should be doing everything you can to weed these people out. i think there comes a point where if you're a public figure/have a power over the general public where privacy starts to matter less. i get it's a nuanced thing though.
Yeah, a teacher definitely has the responsibility to not make jokes like that. And a racist shouldn’t be teaching the impressionable youth. I was more just explaining to stank what was going on but that I am also nervous about the precedents that are set regarding reporting people to be canceled. I’m just trying to be consistent. But your point is definitely legit and making racist remarks as a teacher is certainly a fireable offense.

I just get nervous about people losing their jobs in general. 24/7 probably does/did deserve to get fired. Like u said, very nuanced situation.
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Old 09-02-2020, 08:15 PM   #45
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I thought the same. Iíd quote the N word and Iíd say it if there were lyrics but tbh man... itís not up to us white people. The word has been damaging since slavery, through Jim Crow and up til now where blacks are being murdered in part due to systemic racism.

If black people, as a whole, want to ban the word then I think itís up to them. Instead of thinking inside your bubble, Iíd ask you to try to think from their perspective. I think years of slavery, Jim Crow and racism now gives them the right to have ownership(excuse my language) of the word. Itís the least we could do to give them at least a LITTLE power back.

Intellectually, you have a point that itís a double standard for whites to not be able to use the word. But to think in those terms and not understand the history of racism is very myopic and self-serving.

Edit: and to your question: avocado was exposed for laughing at a racist joke told by 24/7 and toasting him. Avo was complicit but he apologized. What bothered black people was that avo was an ally to the black community , so it really hurt a lot of people of color. While 24/7 was more responsible for the joke, people expected better out of avocado. Cancel culture took over from there.

But to avoís credit, he has faced this situation head on which I respect. 24/7 on the other hand did NOT respond to this and people called thhe school where he works and he probably will/has been fired.

While I side with the frustration on people of color towards racism, I absolutely HATE cancel culture. But itís up to black people whether they want to forgive them or not.
Hmm. I guess i just disagree. Giving a certain group (who are not, in any way, homogenous) a social power such as policing language (it doesn't stop at nigger, though i completely understand this one) is a slippery slope. I understand i will never (likely) have anything close to an idea of what its like to hear that word and be black at the same time -but, honestly, that doesn't change my point. I'm guessing we disagree anyway but my point is more than when it comes to freedom of expression/language your race REALLY, objectively doesn't matter. Also, they've already done your suggestion with Nigga. No one's 'taking' a word from anyone. Words are communal and everyone uses them. I'm sorry but the idea that any group has 'control' or 'ownership' of how a word is used is antithetical to how i feel about life and i cna't think of a rational reason why it would be okay.

I'll give you an actual example of where i think its actually 'good' though - when i was like 14 my social studies teacher quoted someone who was interviewed when the first African American's were 'integrated' in the USA education system.
"Ain't no nigger bitch coming to my school".
Hearing that - the viciousness, the intensity of ideology, the hatred - it literally changed my entire life. How i viewed race and society after that moment was completely different. Compassion, want of understanding, shared experience vs non-shared, ancestry mattering, hang-overs from Jim Crow etc... all came flooding into my perspective and have never shaken since. Changed, sure, but never lost that incredibly painful pinch whenever i remember those facts.

This feeds into what i see as another problem. "Black people" are not one thing. There are thousands of black americans who don't support BLM for instance. I think talking about 'black people' as a group is pretty disparaging. This is what i'm getting from speaking to black people across the board. Not just in one corner.

Cancel culture is fucked up - its mostly white people anyway, so these CAN be two separate issues. Not allowing growth is fucked up. Life-long disdain is fucked up. Grudges are fucked up.

We also have to be careful to avoid Kafka-trapping people. 24/7 defending himself (if that's what happened) isn't evidence he's racist. Similarly, making an argument against BLM doesn't make you racist. Robin D'Angelo and Ibram Kendi are, possibly, mentally ill.
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Old 09-02-2020, 08:19 PM   #46
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i think there comes a point where if you're a public figure/have a power over the general public where privacy starts to matter less. i get it's a nuanced thing though.
I thikn this is important. I don't think teacher is a high enough bar, honestly. We need diversity and the chances old Cam is ACTUALLY racist and that this would have an effect on teaching is incredibly low.

But police, public officials, council workers etc... should all be subject to a political gauntlet. That said, we should stop letting fall so far to the left.
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Old 09-03-2020, 06:00 AM   #47
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This is the best breakdown of "cancel culture" I've ever seen. It's definitely worth the watch even at almost two hours and with the crazy amount of info it throws at you. The examples throughout the video are kinda inane, but that's expected from a discussion about people whose only hobby seems to be media consumption. ContraPoints makes some fuckin dope content.

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Old 09-03-2020, 07:19 PM   #48
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I think the criticisms of "cancel culture" are misdirected toward random individuals on the internet. The entities with the most power to cancel people are corporations and the state. Fred Hampton got "permanently canceled" by the FBI and Chicago police.

The random individuals on the internet might be able to make someone feel socially ostracized, but is that real power? As far as "cancelling" someone by getting them fired from their job, that's strongly related with at-will employment, which is a policy that exists because companies want it to exist because it benefits them rather than their workers. But rallying around ending at-will employment would be rallying against corporate power, and these politicians are almost all pro-neoliberalism. So they reframe the issue as about some random college students or Twitter users. Same way we reframe everything in this country as individual rather than systemic (solving climate change by not eating meat, solving racism by reading White Fragility and being nicer to people, etc.)
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Old 09-04-2020, 06:31 AM   #49
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I think the criticisms of "cancel culture" are misdirected toward random individuals on the internet. The entities with the most power to cancel people are corporations and the state. Fred Hampton got "permanently canceled" by the FBI and Chicago police.

The random individuals on the internet might be able to make someone feel socially ostracized, but is that real power? As far as "cancelling" someone by getting them fired from their job, that's strongly related with at-will employment, which is a policy that exists because companies want it to exist because it benefits them rather than their workers. But rallying around ending at-will employment would be rallying against corporate power, and these politicians are almost all pro-neoliberalism. So they reframe the issue as about some random college students or Twitter users. Same way we reframe everything in this country as individual rather than systemic (solving climate change by not eating meat, solving racism by reading White Fragility and being nicer to people, etc.)

Wh.... what?

politicians DON'T address cancel culture. And, unfortunately for your point, people's 'at will' employment isn't delineated by whether they work for a corp or the government.
People being ostracised, losing opportunities to flourish, destruction of relationships, loss of job etc... really is the problem. You make it sound like there's some other thing that people should be putting their concern toward. There are MANY things we should be concerned about. Indulging people's outrage is definitely ONE of them. There's no reason to say that we have to ignore that for a 'deeper' problem when getting there is impossible if there's path covered with absolute shit. So we have to do that first.

Your obscurantism is exactly the same as that used to defend Islamism - Yes, there are socio-political reasons for terrorism but without hte religion it wouldn't exist. Fact. Same here - You're trying to hide-the-ball and say the problem isn't people being assholes and power structures bending to it - but instead its actually the inequality causing those shitheads to do what they're doing. Well, they're still going to be shitheads trying to ruin other people's lives. They have to make things up to do it even at this stage - its a hobby. Removing one possible avenue to hurt someone you disagree with (i.e making getting fired harder) is doing the exact opposite of addressing the problem.

Also, White Fragility is an absolutely fucking disgusting book which is essentially the author blaming every other white person for her own self-hatred which is all neatly framed as a Kafka-trap. Its not even internally coherent. So it's going to be a really uphill battle if THAT'S what you think is a good place to start worrying.

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Old 09-04-2020, 05:46 PM   #50
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Also, White Fragility is an absolutely fucking disgusting book which is essentially the author blaming every other white person for her own self-hatred which is all neatly framed as a Kafka-trap. Its not even internally coherent. So it's going to be a really uphill battle if THAT'S what you think is a good place to start worrying.
I can see how you thought I was saying reading White Fragility was a well-intentioned if useless attempt at fighting racism with the way I wrote that. So I'll clarify that I think that book is a grift and not worth anyone's time to read.

Beyond that, I dunno, since the last time I was on here I've gotten a lot less interested in online back and forths.
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Old 09-06-2020, 10:21 AM   #51
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I can see how you thought I was saying reading White Fragility was a well-intentioned if useless attempt at fighting racism with the way I wrote that. So I'll clarify that I think that book is a grift and not worth anyone's time to read.

Beyond that, I dunno, since the last time I was on here I've gotten a lot less interested in online back and forths.
I sincerely apologise
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Old 09-20-2020, 03:25 PM   #52
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Yes, and I don't think it's on Avo to expose. It would look bad trying to shift focus so I respect if he dodged it.

There was a clear condescending tone regarding intelligence too. It hasn't necessarily stopped either. Dirtbag Dan was recently on WATCH going into why Reverse Live is smarter than Shotty P and it's just that nobody "gets" it.

Can't tell you how many times I got tagged in a thread saying "EF likes this" or "EF hits replay" when it was two black people battling. It is what it is, I wasn't mad about it then, not mad about it now. I'm mad about the aggressive rebranding going on though
Is it possible it had less to do with the battlers race and more their style and content of bars? It was more about you liking gun bars I thought than black battlers.

Shit, I guess I don't really know. Calling 24/7 school over this is super shitty though. Super unnecessary. And was it a tasteless joke? Yes. Would he have said it to bust balls if a black person was interviewing them? Maybe if he was friends with the person. I mean I don't know.
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:21 PM   #53
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Not a big fan of cancel culture, just seems like a movement to give a thumbs up to snitching while everyone once in a while making a valid point. People that enjoy seeing someone get fired from a job or miss out on a financial opportunity are often no better than the people they criticize. Seems like the adult thing to do would be to talk to the person directly that you have an issue with or simply stop supporting the person yourself but when you go after their livelihood it just creates a situation that is worse.

It creates those "anti cancel culture" movements and then everything just devolves into stupidity. The better answer is to discuss this thing like an adult with the other person. In battle rap it's even worse, as there's an obvious amount of humor and sarcasm involved, a medium that i personally think should be off limits. The other issue is that it's not always easy to tell what people will find offensive 10 years from now, which can stiffle creatviity, not something worth doing.
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:25 PM   #54
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Not a big fan of cancel culture, just seems like a movement to give a thumbs up to snitching while everyone once in a while making a valid point. People that enjoy seeing someone get fired from a job or miss out on a financial opportunity are often no better than the people they criticize. Seems like the adult thing to do would be to talk to the person directly that you have an issue with or simply stop supporting the person yourself but when you go after their livelihood it just creates a situation that is worse.

It creates those "anti cancel culture" movements and then everything just devolves into stupidity. The better answer is to discuss this thing like an adult with the other person. In battle rap it's even worse, as there's an obvious amount of humor and sarcasm involved, a medium that i personally think should be off limits. The other issue is that it's not always easy to tell what people will find offensive 10 years from now, which can stiffle creatviity, not something worth doing.
Fantastic post.
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Old 09-24-2020, 02:44 AM   #55
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Is what 24/7 said that bad? So much more racist shit has been said in battles, people make racist jokes amongst friends and it's really no big deal. You know why? Because every race does it. What world are people living in where we are pretending any group doesn't take part in this kind of thing. What 24/7 was really not that edgy, people just overvalue their own feelings these days and i don't have time for that shit.

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Old 10-18-2020, 11:03 PM   #56
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wtf is going on?

i swear ppl are becoming bitches nowaday

cant imagine hitman holla or tay roc calling 24/7s school complaining about "racism". Everyone has some viewpoints that not everyone will agree with one thing thats racist to someone, may not be racist to another, especially nowadays where trump breaths and its considered racist.

its all bullshit.

and this shit about white ppl being guests to battles is 100% bitch move. fuck outta here with that.

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