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Canadian Talent (or lack there of)


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Old 09-21-2015, 09:12 PM   #1
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Canadian Talent (or lack there of)

Things are not looking great for the Canadian scene beyond having one of the best leagues based out of Toronto.

Is there some new talent in GZ or any of the smaller leagues worth watching?

We've seen some of the mid tier veterans get moved to GZ to headline but I've heard very little otherwise.

States and the UK seem to be finding the next generation but Canada doesn't seem to have anyone.......... No secret we are fishing from a much smaller pond but I'd expect there to be atleast a couple people?

If Tycoon Tax can get the battles he is getting then someone interesting (sorry Tax) would reach the upper echelons within a year of their GZ debut.

C'mon Gully, this is your job.

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Old 09-21-2015, 09:40 PM   #2
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They should push Scandalis.

I only saw his one battle with Tax but he killed him and actually has a name for himself in Toronto without battling.

I think he did another GZ battle but I didn't even check it, but I remember Bishop and Gully talking aboutit when Bishop did Talkback and they said he killed it.
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Old 09-21-2015, 10:03 PM   #3
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There's no one in the pipeline. There's a couple guys who are decent but nothing special and a bunch that are just terrible.

To put it in perspective, Bender was the most recent Canadian to have a stint as a top tier (or close, at least).
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Old 09-21-2015, 10:08 PM   #4
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When tycoon tax is who you're pushing you need to seriously look at yourself in the mirror.
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Old 09-21-2015, 10:10 PM   #5
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The only new Canadian in the last 5 years worth a damn is Bulletz.But KOTD starts to push him then they stop though hes winning every time...I still believe the staff doesnt like him and its a shame cause hes the best chance they have to have another guy on url that Americans could actually respect.

Folks like Illipsis and Lil G could garner big fanbases if ever given the chance outside of GZ....Other than that its kinda a mess in Canada
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Old 09-21-2015, 10:14 PM   #6
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Lol god damn, benders first video came out in November 2009. So in almost 6 years Canada has yet to have a new talent that's capable of being top tier. What's worse is it's not like we have an a crowded mid tier. It's like 5 people at the top, a couple who aren't intolerable, then nothing.
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Old 09-21-2015, 10:22 PM   #7
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They should push Scandalis.

I only saw his one battle with Tax but he killed him and actually has a name for himself in Toronto without battling.

I think he did another GZ battle but I didn't even check it, but I remember Bishop and Gully talking aboutit when Bishop did Talkback and they said he killed it.
Yeah he's really good. I think he choked a bit in that 1st battle but still cooked Tax IMO. 2nd battle was even better (think he calls himself Tony Racks now though).

Illipsis, Copasetic, Pay Day & Pigsty are all good too. Rupert Common is good sometimes and terrible others.

Heard the guy Crome from Montreal is nice but haven't checked him.

Very poor compared to US & UK, but like OP said, less people so I guess it makes sense.
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Old 09-21-2015, 10:57 PM   #8
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Old 09-21-2015, 11:10 PM   #9
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Illipsis had a really good battle against Issac Knox that I think people will enjoy, but is he going to be the next top tier Canadian? It feels unlikely. I think Skelly and Tax take unnecessary hate but both are what they are. Past that, both have also been around forever too. Bulletz is genuinely much improved, but he's been around a while too, even if we were to grant that, that's only one guy. Franchise had a good performance recently in Toronto. I'm not sure if he's Canadian, but it was in TO and he's got a few battles in Beastmode, so it's possible.

KOTD are a top league, but I do wonder if they'll be able to replenish their talent pool as well as other top leagues will be able to after their guys fall back. It's true that these guys are all free agents, but every league needs guys that are "their guys", if for no other reason than proximity makes things cheaper. In addition though, if KOTD just take guys who've made their name on URL or other places , then what separates them? All this is probably a more serious issue for their long term sustainability than I think will be admitted publicly. I wonder to what extent it's spoken of in private
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Old 09-21-2015, 11:28 PM   #10
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Stop trolling. The fact that illipsis is being mentioned as a legit up and comer is fucking embarrassing. smh
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Old 09-21-2015, 11:30 PM   #11
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it's too bad day rubbed ball sweat over pesci. he was the only canadian worth anything
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Old 09-21-2015, 11:32 PM   #12
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it's too bad day rubbed ball sweat over pesci. he was the only canadian worth anything
his career was essentially dead anyway
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Old 09-22-2015, 12:03 AM   #13
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As an aside, the UK scene is interesting to me. It often gets spoken of that they have a whole new crop that has really caught on with their fans, but if you look at the channel views they get (which is unfortunately the only objective measure that we have available to us) this new crop really isn't generating views at the level of something you'd expect from a top tier league. Maybe the argument isn't actually about pushing the next wave of popular MC's and more about showing confidence in the up and comers by booking them against their top guys. There's 0% chance this isn't gonna be seen as hate, it's not. It's just questioning the prevailing sentiment
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Old 09-22-2015, 12:21 AM   #14
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Old 09-22-2015, 12:24 AM   #15
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There was dudes like Fingaz who showed some potential here and there a few years back but never really went anywhere with it. 400 Bulletz probably had the most success and longevity after coming out of that Grand Prix.

Other than that Canada hasnt really got anyone any good, theres Kid Twist, Chedda Cheese, Charoon... they all on the corny self depreciating jokey shit though which wasnt really what people have been wanting over the last couple years and they are a KOTD old crop anyway, same with Bender, Osa, who have been myths pretty much.

This is probably why Tycoon Tax has had the push. He is Canadas only hometown face that can go up and give 3 rounds, even if its 3 shit rounds.
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Old 09-22-2015, 12:24 AM   #16
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As an aside, the UK scene is interesting to me. It often gets spoken of that they have a whole new crop that has really caught on with their fans, but if you look at the channel views they get (which is unfortunately the only objective measure that we have available to us) this new crop really isn't generating views at the level of something you'd expect from a top tier league. Maybe the argument isn't actually about pushing the next wave of popular MC's and more about showing confidence in the up and comers by booking them against their top guys. There's 0% chance this isn't gonna be seen as hate, it's not. It's just questioning the prevailing sentiment
views arent everything though. look at the last big event df threw, sunburn 2 was top to bottom uk talent, didnt have names like osh, lunar, definition, shotty, yet still packed out the venue 2 days running.

a lot of the newer df talent might not get major views, but df for the most part caters more towards a uk rather than global audience. so these new guys might not be doing crazy numbers, but there reaching the core audience and people who buy the tickets and ppv's and thats whats important.
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Old 09-22-2015, 12:33 AM   #17
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KOTD seems very loyal to guys who support the brand. Just unfortunate that most of those guys are garbage, at least from Canada. I always really enjoyed Synikal. Not sure if he battles anymore, but that's a guy they should have really looked at trying to put on. Skandalis or however he spells it, is leaps and bounds above a guy like Tax, but can't seem to get out of GZ.


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Old 09-22-2015, 12:33 AM   #18
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views arent everything though. look at the last big event df threw, sunburn 2 was top to bottom uk talent, didnt have names like osh, lunar, definition, shotty, yet still packed out the venue 2 days running.

a lot of the newer df talent might not get major views, but df for the most part caters more towards a uk rather than global audience. so these new guys might not be doing crazy numbers, but there reaching the core audience and people who buy the tickets and ppv's and thats whats important.
You're a million % right that views aren't everything, like I said, it's solely a lack of other ways for me to judge (I didn't know how well their events do attendance wise). Devil's advocate: Couldn't that just be a result of DF fans loving DF, more than the individuals on it? DF do an incredible job promoting their brand, but if every DF event does well because it's a DF event, how much credit should we really be giving to the individual battlers themselves?
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Old 09-22-2015, 12:41 AM   #19
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As an aside, the UK scene is interesting to me. It often gets spoken of that they have a whole new crop that has really caught on with their fans, but if you look at the channel views they get (which is unfortunately the only objective measure that we have available to us) this new crop really isn't generating views at the level of something you'd expect from a top tier league. Maybe the argument isn't actually about pushing the next wave of popular MC's and more about showing confidence in the up and comers by booking them against their top guys. There's 0% chance this isn't gonna be seen as hate, it's not. It's just questioning the prevailing sentiment
These things take a long time though. Impact & Quill have been making noise, taking big battles, and getting more views recently, but it's important to remember they've been at it for 3 years now.

People don't click on names they've never heard of, simple as. New battlers WILL struggle around 20k at first, before slowly building their name up and getting bigger opponents. DF could book the old reliable 2008-2012 roster for more views every time, but if they did that we wouldn't have the likes of Raptor, Gemini or Juan, who are doing big views and clashes despite only trying out last year. That's not to mention the dozens of DF battlers who tried out 2013 onwards who've made it to the lower/upper mid tier.

It's a necessary sacrifice, I think. If KotD showed the same confidence in a large pool of newcomers, the views would dip too, but they WOULD manage to build up a lot more new talent.
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Old 09-22-2015, 12:52 AM   #20
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These things take a long time though. Impact & Quill have been making noise, taking big battles, and getting more views recently, but it's important to remember they've been at it for 3 years now.

People don't click on names they've never heard of, simple as. New battlers WILL struggle around 20k at first, before slowly building their name up and getting bigger opponents. DF could book the old reliable 2008-2012 roster for more views every time, but if they did that we wouldn't have the likes of Raptor, Gemini or Juan, who are doing big views and clashes despite only trying out last year. That's not to mention the dozens of DF battlers who tried out 2013 onwards who've made it to the lower/upper mid tier.

It's a necessary sacrifice, I think. If KotD showed the same confidence in a large pool of newcomers, the views would dip too, but they WOULD manage to build up a lot more new talent.
I 100% agree with you that it's good for DF, it's just that people speak about how deep the talent pool is and how DF have taken to all these new people, but I look at them and by every conceivable measure, someone like Tycoon Tax is beating them, other than a subjective notion of how good you think the people are.
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Old 09-22-2015, 01:10 AM   #21
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I 100% agree with you that it's good for DF, it's just that people speak about how deep the talent pool is and how DF have taken to all these new people, but I look at them and by every conceivable measure, someone like Tycoon Tax is beating them, other than a subjective notion of how good you think the people are.
Fair, but I'm not sure you should be comparing DF newcomers to Tax. Like, he's been around for 6 years (who knew?), and has received the single most undeserved push in battle rap history (ok, that might be hyperbole, but he does get gifted big battles that he doesn't deserve talent wise).

Bearing all that in mind, here is a list of DF battlers who tried out 2012 onwards (Tax gets a 3 year head start) who have more views than Tax (probably missing some, still, thanks @VerseTracker):

Dialect
Cee Major
Raptor
Shuffle
Marlo
Bamalam
Impact
Double-L
Youthoracle
Villun
Harry Baker
Dotz
Ogmios
Carloss
Enigma
Aukes
Big-J
Lefty
Jai-90
Cracker
Bru-C
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Old 09-22-2015, 01:27 AM   #22
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Canadian battle rap can't ever progress until they get out of their weird identity crisis.
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Old 09-22-2015, 01:47 AM   #23
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Canadian battle rap can't ever progress until they get out of their weird identity crisis.
Canada had lots of up and comers until the Fresh Coast merger. The nail in the coffin for Canadian battle rap was when Drake and his buddies tried to turn KOTD into Diet URL. Also spoiling the Pat Stay's and Bender's etc... didn't help. If top tier Canadians won't give up and comers a shot there basically is no up and comers.
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:06 AM   #24
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What do you guys think url is doing right with the PG's, and what do you think Kotd is doing wrong with GZ?
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:09 AM   #25
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What do you guys think url is doing right with the PG's, and what do you think Kotd is doing wrong with GZ?
PG battles get viewed as much as KOTD main stage battles. Have an impressive PG and you can start pimpin yourself out. Have an impressive showing on GZ and you'll probably end up back on GZ getting pimped out.
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:11 AM   #26
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PG battles get viewed as much as KOTD main stage battles. Have an impressive PG and you can start pimpin yourself out. Have an impressive showing on GZ and you'll probably end up back on GZ getting pimped out.
Keep going...
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:17 AM   #27
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Canada had lots of up and comers until the Fresh Coast merger. The nail in the coffin for Canadian battle rap was when Drake and his buddies tried to turn KOTD into Diet URL. Also spoiling the Pat Stay's and Bender's etc... didn't help. If top tier Canadians won't give up and comers a shot there basically is no up and comers.
they didnt merge freshcoast into kotd, they just battled on kotd like other americans did and happened to get the most attention. if the canadians would put more effort into writing and self identity instead of trying to emulate whats in the spotlight they would get attention.
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:22 AM   #28
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charron would have blew up if he would have pushed his freestyle ability.

written leagues arent really for him.
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:23 AM   #29
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Not sure how many basketball fans are on here tbh, but Canada has one of the brightest futures of being competitive in the olympics in the future... Canada isn't a melting pot for basketball talent either... My point is, it's possible for them, with the push they have from being a big player in the battle community, to at least do better.....
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:30 AM   #30
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they didnt merge freshcoast into kotd, they just battled on kotd like other americans did and happened to get the most attention. if the canadians would put more effort into writing and self identity instead of trying to emulate whats in the spotlight they would get attention.
No they did merge with Fresh Coast after GT went under. Fresh Coast doesn't even put a lot of their own on. A lot of GT fresh coast MC's are on GZ. The merger with Fresh Coast also meant a lot of main page slots going to URL rappers. There are only so many ways you can approach a rap battle. Of course current trends are going to influence Canadians just like everyone else. KOTD just stinks at recruiting Canadian talent and recognizing when they already have it in some cases.
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:42 AM   #31
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No they did merge with Fresh Coast after GT went under. Fresh Coast doesn't even put a lot of their own on. A lot of GT fresh coast MC's are on GZ. The merger with Fresh Coast also meant a lot of main page slots going to URL rappers. There are only so many ways you can approach a rap battle. Of course current trends are going to influence Canadians just like everyone else. KOTD just stinks at recruiting Canadian talent and recognizing when they already have it in some cases.
if youre calling a couple of top dudes in grandtime who happened to be from freshcoast battling on kotd because grindtime went bankrupt a merger than ok.

but you cant blame the reason canadas talent not getting attention on a couple of fresh coast battle rappers
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:44 AM   #32
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if anything they had a help in making kotd as big as it is today
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:48 AM   #33
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if youre calling a couple of top dudes in grandtime who happened to be from freshcoast battling on kotd because grindtime went bankrupt a merger than ok.

but you cant blame the reason canadas talent not getting attention on a couple of fresh coast battle rappers
I never said that was the sole reason. I already stated other contributing factors. Once GT rappers started taking more main stage spots so did URL rappers. Instead of having more Canadian vs Canadian KOTD matches. The main page was occupied with lots of GT vs URL matches or URL vs URL or GT vs GT matches or KOTD vs GT/URL matches. There really isn't any in house rivalries to make Canadians more interesting to other markets. Besides Pat Stay vs Hollohan or Charron what Canadian rivalries have there been?
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:54 AM   #34
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Not sure how many basketball fans are on here tbh, but Canada has one of the brightest futures of being competitive in the olympics in the future... Canada isn't a melting pot for basketball talent either... My point is, it's possible for them, with the push they have from being a big player in the battle community, to at least do better.....
It'd help if they didn't shit the bed in FIBA Americas ((
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Old 09-22-2015, 03:25 AM   #35
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i still feel like fingaz is criminally slept on.
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Old 09-22-2015, 08:08 AM   #36
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The Canadian talent pool just sin't there. We always thought that there had to be some more hidden gems out there, but apparently there isn't. The original Canadian crop from 08-11 (Pat, Hollohan, Twist, PoRich, Bender, Pesci, Charron, Osa, Jack Shit, Organik, Chedda and one or two more) were just way better than the average talent pool justifies. Plus some of them arguably were suited better for the early stages of the written era.

If there were any great newcomers out there, you'd figure they would have found them by now with all the GZ events and the cross-country touring.
It probably says something that they brought in Quake Mathews, a guy from the Elements League that hadn't been active for years, to their most recent mega event in Toronto.

To some degree you could ask the same questions about the Cali GZ pool. But at least guys like Psycoses and Madflex seem to get a chance now.
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Old 09-22-2015, 09:22 AM   #37
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I think day 3 of World Domination says it all really. There wasn't even an official trailer for that day, no promotion, nothing. Apart from quick mentions on social media that there will be a day 3 card. No actual promotion for the actual battlers.

If thats your new talent pool, you need to be pushing them, getting them in interviews, creating hype around the card. And the Day 3 battlers got nothing for real.

Lets be honest, kotd arent pushing enough talent that can become top tier and sell tickets. Imagine tycoon tax or skelly as main events... People would say kotd falling off. Tbh Gully is pretty shit at his job because what real top tier, even mid tier talent has he brought through? And this isnt even limited to canada either. He has been in America at different events like in Detroit, watching for talent kotd could bring through. But still, nothing.
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Old 09-22-2015, 12:20 PM   #38
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Fingaz , Osa , Pesci, quake, Justice McFly , Skelly , step easy, 100 Bulletz are some of my favorite Canadians and only Bulletz is active enough to count smh. Most of their promising talent seems uninterested so we are left with the guys who try too hard.
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Old 09-22-2015, 12:33 PM   #39
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What do you guys think url is doing right with the PG's, and what do you think Kotd is doing wrong with GZ?
Honestly, KOTD isn't doing anything wrong...you can't make talent where there is none. Either there's no one in Canada these days who's good, or none of the good people want to battle.

If you're a rapper in Canada, KOTD should be on your radar. Maybe that's the problem though, if you look at DFs mid tier, most of them aren't rappers...good rappers don't necessarily translate well to battlers as we all know...
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:46 PM   #40
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Honestly, KOTD isn't doing anything wrong...you can't make talent where there is none. Either there's no one in Canada these days who's good, or none of the good people want to battle.

If you're a rapper in Canada, KOTD should be on your radar. Maybe that's the problem though, if you look at DFs mid tier, most of them aren't rappers...good rappers don't necessarily translate well to battlers as we all know...
Shut up...


























































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