[baldjewishman]

Here's my theory as to why battle rap has fallen off;

When people in America feel like things are going well for the country as a whole, they start to turn their attention to extracurricular activities - you know - things like performance art, or dare I say it, battle rap.

I think this country has descended into the treacherous helix of a downward spiral - one it has been on for at least ten years - and because of this, activities such as battle rap have fallen into obscurity.

Plus having money injected into it didn't work, and so now it has been relegated back to the underworld from whence it came.

Discuss why you think battle rap has fallen from grace - is it lack of new talent? Socioeconomic conditions of North America? Dickbutt?

[Emancee]

I've said this before, but I think battle rap actually had a great 2016. Skip the garbage and limit yourself to only the good battles and guys you can rely on and battle rap is amazing.

[RandallFlagg]

I think battlerap is better than ever right now. Theres several good leagues that put out quality battles which have spawned a bunch of great new rappers. There seems to be a focus on veterans actually showing up after all the fuckery in the past years. For the first time we have a generation of battlers AND league owners who grew up on the current format and we're getting the best bars ever as a result.

Battlerap is definitely growing way more than people realize. In the US alone there's multiple leauges in each state. All of them doing local bar shows and attempting to monetize the footage online. Collectively that's A LOT of money and viewership thats being thrown around for man poems.

With the expansion of any genre or artform you're going to have more and more filler and more and more killer. It's the 5th natural force or something.

[cripplesunday1]

Battlings still popping, maybe a wee stagnant, but with venues like the Bunkers breathing a bit of life back into the sport hard to say its dying.

[lukej]

What?

It's better than ever.

[PJ Sumroc]

The Bunker and Born Legacy have me excited about battle rap right now tbh

[Casual]

Originally Posted by Emancee

I've said this before, but I think battle rap actually had a great 2016. Skip the garbage and limit yourself to only the good battles and guys you can rely on and battle rap is amazing.

yeah.

there's still a ton of good battles.

there's just a lot more shit battles than usual. i don't bother watching battles unless they're two names i wanna see OR if it's getting a ton of love on here (shoutout to the soldiers sifting through all the crap).

as a general rule of thumb i watch:

-The Bunker
-SMACK battles involving top tiers or that have a good positive feedback to video length ratio.
-Headliners and some mid cards from other KOTD events
-Headlines from DF events and some mid cards depending on the names involved/feedback here
-UDubb headliners
-The odd headliner from no name (ie. ones not mentioned above) leagues if they decided to import talent and they didn't fuck up the audio/video.

[Seanzo]

I think maybe we've all just watched too much battle rap and are now burnt out

[lukej]

Originally Posted by PJ Sumroc

The Bunker and Born Legacy have me excited about battle rap right now tbh

This.

The big stage has diluted things a bit.

[MrMumbles905]

Only problem is oversaturation.
I remember when we could watch every battle released. Now that's impossible.
And the crowds are getting too big and ruin battles with talking and the say it again that cause battles to be too long.

A URL battle has to be amazing for me to watch the whole thing because theyre like an 1hr now. It seems KOTD is doing the same with the length.

I do the same as Casual I only watch the names I know going to be good or if I hear allot of feedback.

If I am at the event I watch.
Plus theyre a few leagues I support like BeastMode, UGK, AlphaLeague

[WallaceBread]

The general shift toward not making any fucking sense hasn't helped much

[PriceAintRight]

This is going to sound a way, but I feel like battle rap has only fallen off to white people. Or maybe not even white people specifically. Perhaps by that I mean the backpacker, KOTD, etc fans.

The rest of us seem to be enjoying battles and having a great time. Ave vs. Chess just came out.

Honestly it seems like a taste thing, which is why every 5 minutes someone.. (typically white) is complaining that battle rap is dead/falling off/ Boyz II Men when the water runs dry.

*Sips soda*

[Smrrr]

- Too many leagues and battles coming out
- Top tiers getting overpaid and not caring
- Battles being more about wordplay and guntalk than attacking the opponent

[peace]

Originally Posted by PriceAintRight

This is going to sound a way, but I feel like battle rap has only fallen off to white people. Or maybe not even white people specifically. Perhaps by that I mean the backpacker, KOTD, etc fans.

The rest of us seem to be enjoying battles and having a great time. Ave vs. Chess just came out.

Honestly it seems like a taste thing, which is why every 5 minutes someone.. (typically white) is complaining that battle rap is dead/falling off/ Boyz II Men when the water runs dry.

*Sips soda*

i never thought of this, but it might be true. i watch both spectrums of the scene. i used to watch both equally, but lately, i've only been tuning in to URL consistently. the only things from KOTD that get me excited are the bunker (the bunker is my favorite thing going in battle rap right now tbh) and massacre. outside of those events, i don't have much interest in anything they do.

not to mention that canadian events, which get more publicity, cater more to the talkback demographic. i think that's why some of the booking decisions at KOTD canadian events can be completely off the goop. within the last 4 title matches, charron and caustic were contenders. yikes. i know that doesn't sound like a big deal, but if rappers like charron and caustic are being pushed to potentially be the face of the brand, can we expect much quality from that part of the scene? it's pretty indicative of how it isn't evolving too well.

there are a number of dope battlers who are grouped with that part of the scene, though. weird thing is that they don't get much attention despite consistently performing well.

[SketchMenace]

people have been saying this for 20 years

[PriceAintRight]

Originally Posted by peace

i never thought of this, but it might be true. i watch both spectrums of the scene. i used to watch both equally, but lately, i've only been tuning in to URL consistently. the only things from KOTD that get me excited are the bunker (the bunker is my favorite thing going in battle rap right now tbh) and massacre. outside of those events, i don't have much interest in anything they do.

not to mention that canadian events, which get more publicity, cater more to the talkback demographic. i think that's why some of the booking decisions at KOTD canadian events can be completely off the goop. within the last 4 title matches, charron and caustic were contenders. yikes. i know that doesn't sound like a big deal, but if rappers like charron and caustic are being pushed to potentially be the face of the brand, can we expect much quality from that part of the scene? it's pretty indicative of how it isn't evolving too well.

there are a number of dope battlers who are grouped with that part of the scene, though. weird thing is that they don't get much attention despite consistently performing well.

You're absolutely right. You hit the nail on the head. The Talkback Audience is being catered to.

The talkback audience is possibly the greatest antithesis to your average URL fan I can think of. To them, battle rap is constantly dead. To everyone else, we're waiting on Rex vs. K-Shine.

[Rtongsta]

Originally Posted by Seanzo

I think maybe we've all just watched too much battle rap and are now burnt out

this. if it werent for rmbva and chris unbias filtering content i might have just quit watching battles altogether

[RandallFlagg]

Originally Posted by Seanzo

I think maybe we've all just watched too much battle rap and are now burnt out

[acidzero]

Originally Posted by Seanzo

I think maybe we've all just watched too much battle rap and are now burnt out

this. gotta take a break every now and again.

[Trill Murray]

Originally Posted by Rtongsta

this. if it werent for rmbva and chris unbias filtering content i might have just quit watching battles altogether

this!! except I don't watch chris unbias too much

[I am LIL ILL]

@Emancee you on point itt. People should see Battle Rap like a network like Netflix and yeah you got thousands of videos to pick from but you'll only pick the ones that have your full interest. if 95% of the shows and movies are garbage then you really only want to watch the other 5%. People will watch some of the 95% but that's to see if the shit is good or not until they exit out of it.

[Assassin Ben]

Originally Posted by SketchMenace

people have been saying this for 20 years

facts!!!

[Neanderthol]

Originally Posted by PriceAintRight

This is going to sound a way, but I feel like battle rap has only fallen off to white people. Or maybe not even white people specifically. Perhaps by that I mean the backpacker, KOTD, etc fans.

The rest of us seem to be enjoying battles and having a great time. Ave vs. Chess just came out.

Honestly it seems like a taste thing, which is why every 5 minutes someone.. (typically white) is complaining that battle rap is dead/falling off/ Boyz II Men when the water runs dry.

*Sips soda*

Ding Ding Ding, we've got a winner
this is the right answer

Old "white battle rap" fans are the 90s hip hop heads of battle rap.
They, for whatever reason, stopped keeping up although their perferred genre didn't necessarily stop existing.
The genre, in fact, continued and evolved greatly and for the better but when the outa touch fan peaks in to see whats up from time to time, its:"shit aint what it used to be, battle rap is dead." Only the first part of that statement is true and rightfully so.

I thought it was a decent year for battle rap but then again I've been up on exactly whats goin on this whole time.

[PriceAintRight]

Originally Posted by Neanderthol

Ding Ding Ding, we've got a winner
this is the right answer

Old "white battle rap" fans are the 90s hip hop heads of battle rap.
They, for whatever reason, stopped keeping up although their perferred genre didn't necessarily stop existing.
The genre, in fact, continued and evolved greatly and for the better but when the outa touch fan peaks in to see whats up from time to time, its:"shit aint what it used to be, battle rap is dead." Only the first part of that statement is true and rightfully so.

I thought it was a decent year for battle rap but then again I've been up on exactly whats goin on this whole time.

There is no greater take on this than this post.

Wish I could rep you 5 times.

[Emancee]

Originally Posted by Neanderthol

Ding Ding Ding, we've got a winner
this is the right answer

Old "white battle rap" fans are the 90s hip hop heads of battle rap.
They, for whatever reason, stopped keeping up although their perferred genre didn't necessarily stop existing.
The genre, in fact, continued and evolved greatly and for the better but when the outa touch fan peaks in to see whats up from time to time, its:"shit aint what it used to be, battle rap is dead." Only the first part of that statement is true and rightfully so.

I thought it was a decent year for battle rap but then again I've been up on exactly whats goin on this whole time.

This is a good metaphor. Much like rap after a great period (Early 90s were amazing!!!), rap got really bad (Noreaga had one of the albums of the year ).

People basically ruled it out the casuals all left. However, rap didn't die for the people who were really into it and instead was kept alive by the real heads. Eventually rap came back and now is really good, albeit in a different form from its glory days.

Pretty much the exact story of battle rap, bboying and even DJing to an extent.

[Water Mage]

-battlers not trying hard enuf / not caring whether they win or not

-lack of heatedness in battling in general..

-disappointing performances at pivotal moments (budden vs hollow, diz vs cassidy) - after those battles its basically impossible to get anyone hyped up ever again

-battling has become too serious, it was better when it had a fun vibe.. if it is overly serious, then it needs to be more competitive, and its not

-nobody feels they have anything to prove, lack of any substantive goal or achievement to strive for

[SHOWTIME]

Shine vs Rex in 2017, Hitman vs Suge, Verb vs Lux... ya battle rap is doing OK rite now;

[Smrrr]

Originally Posted by SHOWTIME

Shine vs Rex in 2017, Hitman vs Suge, Verb vs Lux... ya battle rap is doing OK rite now;

you know damn well Verb vs Lux aint happening (yet)

[King Fly]

Originally Posted by PriceAintRight

This is going to sound a way, but I feel like battle rap has only fallen off to white people. Or maybe not even white people specifically. Perhaps by that I mean the backpacker, KOTD, etc fans.

The rest of us seem to be enjoying battles and having a great time. Ave vs. Chess just came out.

Honestly it seems like a taste thing, which is why every 5 minutes someone.. (typically white) is complaining that battle rap is dead/falling off/ Boyz II Men when the water runs dry.

*Sips soda*

this would be cool and right except for a couple things -
1- talkback never says battle rap is dying - in fact they've praised 2016 as the best year.

2 - its actually always the url fans and battlers that post battle rap is dying (and its been usually after a cancelled url event which happened a lot in 2016)

but other than that - spot on!

[Casual]

Originally Posted by King Fly

this would be cool and right except for a couple things -
1- talkback never says battle rap is dying - in fact they've praised 2016 as the best year.

2 - its actually always the url fans and battlers that post battle rap is dying (and its been usually after a cancelled url event which happened a lot in 2016)

but other than that - spot on!

yeah but talkback started watching battle rap in 2015 for the most part so they still in the honeymoon phase where everything, even a charron rebuttal, seems new and exciting.

the trailer trash in talkback is largely responsible for Toronto events gradually becoming more and more mediocre.

[King Fly]

Originally Posted by Casual

yeah but talkback started watching battle rap in 2015 for the most part so they still in the honeymoon phase where everything, even a charron rebuttal, seems new and exciting.

the trailer trash in talkback is largely responsible for Toronto events gradually becoming more and more mediocre.

thats all cool - but it still remains that talkback doesnt say battle rap is dead like i was disputing lol. i did a search in talkback for the terms battle rap dying - one post made in 2014 (2 posts if you add the "is" - both actually saying "who says battle rap is dead")lol. (think someone confused unbias or angryfan for talkback)


and last toronto event and crowd was fire as fuck tbh.

oh and talkback doesnt hold as much weight as some of you seem to think. battles arent booked in kotd from talkback - maybe gz does a bit - but any main kotd battles are not influenced by talkback - matter of fact rmbva has been responsible for 100 times more battles than talkback. food for thought.

[PriceAintRight]

KingFly showed up to disagree... pretty much verifying everything we've said.

TalkBack is like a separate universe of weirdos to begin with. The type of people to say Thesaurus is better than Load----

Wait.

[King Fly]

Originally Posted by PriceAintRight

KingFly showed up to disagree... pretty much verifying everything we've said.

TalkBack is like a separate universe of weirdos to begin with. The type of people to say Thesaurus is better than Load----

Wait.

can you provide examples of talkback saying battle rap is dead? (which btw is the only thing i disagreed with) if im wrong - its easy to prove right?

[PriceAintRight]

"Talkback" In this context represents a type of battle rap fan. The white, backpacker, KOTD, Grindtime refugee fanbase.

You've been on RM/RMBVA long enough to get the correlation.

Example: Water Mage.

That should be pretty apt, lol.

[Casual]

Originally Posted by King Fly

can you provide examples of talkback saying battle rap is dead? (which btw is the only thing i disagreed with) if im wrong - its easy to prove right?

id have to join that group to do that so ill just take your word for it.


i'll just point out that he said white people and not talkback. but i assume you make the connection that white people = KOTD fans = talkback fans. i'd disagree with that. i don't think Talkback is a good representation of the average KOTD fan and I don't think KOTD fans = white.

[King Fly]

Originally Posted by PriceAintRight

"Talkback" In this context represents a type of battle rap fan. The white, backpacker, KOTD, Grindtime refugee fanbase.

You've been on RM/RMBVA long enough to get the correlation.

Example: Water Mage.

That should be pretty apt, lol.

yeah except like i said - its the url fans and battlers who say it. you might be dead on about the type of people they are etc - but your dead wrong about them saying battle rap is dead. they are actually the people (like casual said) are still new to battle rap and love everything.
i wasnt disagreeing about talkback as a group or whole - just saying they aint the ones saying battle rap is dead. thats it thats all.

[King Fly]

Originally Posted by Casual

id have to join that group to do that so ill just take your word for it.


i'll just point out that he said white people and not talkback. but i assume you make the connection that white people = KOTD fans = talkback fans. i'd disagree with that. i don't think Talkback is a good representation of the average KOTD fan and I don't think KOTD fans = white.

i make the connection KOTD fans = talkback fans - yes - also read more into the thread before responding and noticed others made that assumption as well and named talkback. you are totally correct however that price didnt specifically name talkback - but i assumed thats what he meant - as did others who responded to him.

[Casual]

Originally Posted by King Fly

i make the connection KOTD fans = talkback fans.

i feel like a lot of the Canadian KOTD Staff does this. Probably why Bunker is such a superior product these days.

Inevitable when you cater to the part of the fanbase that has Hollow Da Don vs. Lexx Luthor headlining their dream card.

[King Fly]

Originally Posted by Casual

i feel like a lot of the Canadian KOTD Staff does this. Probably why Bunker is such a superior product these days.

except ganik and myself are involved in both, so that doesnt really make any sense.
and as i said - talkback holds no weight when it comes to booking battles - so why would it matter if all staff thought that way? lol i dont see the correlation

[haatley]

Over saturated. Not seeing enough of big names cause they want stupid money now.