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Does it bother you when battle rap seems a little disassociated with hiphop?


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Old 01-21-2016, 12:56 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by VAallDAY View Post
bruh how someone says something is always important..... a big reason why a lotta top tiers are rated is cuz of the way the say shit.. hitman, goodz, dizaster, rex, ars etc

do u think aye verbs 3rd vs hitman woulda been as legendary if erik foreman(no diss to foreman he has dope writing) was the one rapping it to hitman?
But its not important to the level of entertainment I can take from it. Or more so not required.

Ya I agree it sounds better one way, but that doesn't take away from the fact that I find entertainment in it when its said differently.

I just don't look for any specific approach when it comes to battling. I don't think the way Aye Verbs third is impressive compared to someone actually riding a beat. I care way more about what he said, but ya it sounded doper from him than if someone like Charron woulda said it.

So when someone raps in a way thats not impressive, if I can still fuck with whats being said I don't care.

One way undoubtedly sounds way better, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the other side of things.
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Old 01-21-2016, 01:03 AM   #42
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thats cuz most of the events u host are full of suburban nerds who like insult rhymes instead of hip hop heads.. cuz thats the type of vibe yall project.. so thats what u attract
ah....word.
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Old 01-21-2016, 02:35 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by VAallDAY View Post
thats cuz most of the events u host are full of suburban nerds who like insult rhymes instead of hip hop heads.. cuz thats the type of vibe yall project.. so thats what u attract
yeah cuz ppl who go to a slam dunk contest and end up watching an actual game will be bored.

edit (different comparison): freeway preforming (or any performance) is like the halftime show to a game, thats when ppl get their hotdogs n nachos n go take a shit, they aint come there for that. just like if it was a hip hop show and then halfway through a battle popped up, same ting
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Old 01-21-2016, 02:39 AM   #44
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Battle rap will always be hip hop because it is a competition thing, and even when the competition is scripted it shouldn't be perceived that way.

Using non "hiphop" music in trailers is a non issue because @Luke can just remix that shit and make it fresh.
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Old 01-21-2016, 02:58 AM   #45
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For the first four years I rapped I didn't really know shit about battling outside of scribble jam tbh, so I got into battling way late in the game and nerded out hardcore. In 2010 it seemed very hip hop to me, and in 2016 it definitely seems less hip hop. That being said now it is better to me in every aspect (marketing, production value, lyrics, entertainment value, live events, media, money, etc) so no I don't really have a problem with it, it seems like it just went that way. Y'all still do cyphers and df does all kinds of music shit, smack releases videos, etc so its not completely gone from the main leagues.

We always have hip hop acts play AFTER the battles are done at No Coast, also we still regularly do freestyle tournaments so these are some of the ways that we try to keep it closer to hip hop still
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Old 01-21-2016, 03:03 AM   #46
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I think this is a show of how far battling has gone from hiphop. Guys like Dizaster and Charron for example have styles not at all suited to rocking the mic, but are well-suited to battle rap.

Of all the leagues, DF probably has the right balance. Their grime battles and beats battles are such a breath of fresh air. They are also smart enough to not overexploit something that works (Except Shuffarlo, lol).

Hopefully in the future we see a big mixture of battle types. I would love to have 1on1 beats, 2on2 beats (Like Illmac and Pass used to do), 1on1 grime and accapella battles at all the big events.
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Old 01-21-2016, 03:05 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Profess View Post
Battle rap will always be hip hop because it is a competition thing, and even when the competition is scripted it shouldn't be perceived that way.

Using non "hiphop" music in trailers is a non issue because @Luke can just remix that shit and make it fresh.
I don't mind at all when Avo uses non hip hop music when making a trailer. Having the track from Akira on the Vendetta2 trailer was a gem tbh. I'd like to see more good, nostalgic tracks like that being used.

A Bloodsport track would be dope, say atleast the first minute or so of this 1 for instance...

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I'd be like

I got 4 more bars hold on ..

then rap a whole 16

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Old 01-21-2016, 03:12 AM   #48
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Wtf? Is it just me or was the track on this muted?

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Originally Posted by ux9 u so fine View Post
I'd be like

I got 4 more bars hold on ..

then rap a whole 16
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Old 01-21-2016, 03:30 AM   #49
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Wtf? Is it just me or was the track on this muted?

https://youtu.be/X6YB492x5QI
whoa wtf yeah its muted.
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Old 01-21-2016, 04:04 AM   #50
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yes and no.

battlers should rap. plain and simple. i hate battlers that dont even make an honest attempt at actually rapping...im not sayin you gotta be ness lee with the rhythm but at least try you know?

i'm not on the extreme end where it's street shit >>>> everything. i think there's room for comedy/satire/aesop rock nerd shit as long as it's done well.

you gotta be natural too. i don't care about "authenticity" per se but if you're gonna rap about guns and shit don't force it.
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Old 01-21-2016, 04:19 AM   #51
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i think it actually bothers me more when battlers try to associate it more with hiphop. Nobody is looking to pay verb, ars, hollow for features or read 50 tweets about the mixtape your dropping on soundcloud.
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Old 01-21-2016, 04:20 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by @VapeHop View Post
i think it actually bothers me more when battlers try to associate it more with hiphop. Nobody is looking to pay verb, ars, hollow for features or read 50 tweets about the mixtape your dropping on soundcloud.
eh honestly thats just their hustle i cant get mad. i bet some fans buy that shit you just never hear about it lol.
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Old 01-21-2016, 04:39 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by @VapeHop View Post
i think it actually bothers me more when battlers try to associate it more with hiphop.
The fuck are you talking about?

Honest question, and you really don't have to answer if you don't want... Do you have any cultural identity?
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Old 01-21-2016, 05:49 AM   #54
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It bothers me when it becomes more associated with Shakespeare than with hip hop
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Old 01-21-2016, 07:15 AM   #55
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eh honestly thats just their hustle i cant get mad. i bet some fans buy that shit you just never hear about it lol.
fair enough from the hustle standpoint. I guess its more the fact that theres 1 in 10 battlers who actually strive to have a career making music while the other 9 just wanna give the illusion of it, and that illusion is typically transparent and sad.

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The fuck are you talking about?

Honest question, and you really don't have to answer if you don't want... Do you have any cultural identity?
oh shit! thems convoluted 6k debatin words! sure, i didn't articulate what I meant but connect a fuckin dot kid.
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Old 01-21-2016, 07:17 AM   #56
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oh shit! thems convoluted 6k debatin words! sure, i didn't articulate what I meant but connect a fuckin dot kid.
You lost me.. I don't understand what this means, but it looks like a cop out

*edit

You can always make another tag about me, tho

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Old 01-21-2016, 07:43 AM   #57
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You lost me.. I don't understand what this means, but it looks like a cop out

*edit

You can always make another tag about me, tho
tag about you? are you ok?
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Old 01-21-2016, 07:54 AM   #58
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I actually didn't read the thread before commenting. so I understand where ya were going with the cultural identity question now. I really shoulda been more clear given the conversation happening.

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Originally Posted by Schwarzer_Negger View Post
IMO, the corniest thing in the world is battlers who have no real desires or plans to make music and then claim they only battle to make music.

I think Conceited and Hollow have both recently said they don't enjoy being in the booth, why should they have to be ashamed of that? They are some of the best to ever do this.

Battling will always be related to rapping but it's not the same thing. It's like a dude who competes at speed skating who's like "yo I only do this so I can raise my profile and play hockey"

There are heaps of dudes who legitimately do both and that's dope, but there is no need to be ashamed if you just want to battle or you realize you aren't gonna get signed IMO.

To Avo's question, I would hate if battling became divorced from rapping, so that it just became rhyming comedy roasts or something. That would be lame as fuck. But that doesn't mean you can't have a trailer with some other type of music or there can't be guys who have never rapped on beat in their lives.

this is 100% my thoughts.
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Old 01-21-2016, 11:46 AM   #59
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Battle rap is more battle than rap, and the gap between the two keeps getting bigger until it ends up in an insult contest

were doomed
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Old 01-21-2016, 12:33 PM   #60
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It doesn't bother me as its different thing entirely these days but i have a lot more respect for battlers who actively make music and can spit on a beat. I much prefer watching people who can rap as opposed to people speaking/shouting there bars and i think being a good rapper counts for a lot in a battle.

That being said hip hop is almost completely dead in the mainstream and 95% of rappers people speak about are a disgrace to rapping and have no real talent at making hip hop or rapping and are just marketed well.
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Old 01-21-2016, 03:17 PM   #61
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Tbh to identify as a "rapper" these days short of actually being successful is pretty embarrassing. I would rather be known as a guy that beats them at their own game than join them.
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I'd be like

I got 4 more bars hold on ..

then rap a whole 16
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Old 01-21-2016, 04:09 PM   #62
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@AVOCADO great thread, and something that needs discussion at a crucial juncture.

I might be somewhat unpopular in saying this, but personally I'm not sure battle rap really needs that hip hop connection anymore. Hear me out.

Now, that's not to say that hip hop isn't an integral part in the foundation of the battle rap sub-culture - of course it is - but battle rap has evolved to a point now where it is entirely it's own entity and I think treating it as such should be encouraged. Things evolve and grow, that's life; embrace it or get left behind. Yet at times this thread has honestly drawn parallels to far right anti-immigrationism, with the whole "foreigners coming in here, fucking up our hip hop" stuff. The reality is, however, that battle rap escaping that constant shadow could be an infinitely good thing for the culture.

For too long it seems it's been one of those kinds of unwanted younger siblings, given reluctant acknowledgement by mainstream hip hop more out of duty than appreciation or genuine love (save for a very select few). Whether we like it or not, as I'm sure many will agree, battle rap is often looked down upon as a lesser being in comparison; many, like myself in the past, treat it as a guilty pleasure of sorts; like it's bad form to openly care for the art/sport and even worse to treat it as being a legitimate equal (ok maybe not equal, but at least functioning as it's own thing).

But do we have to be old school, postgrad educated hip hop heads to enjoy a good rap battle? Absolutely not. Do battlers have to adhere to what the purists consider acceptable vibes and subject matter to put on a strong or enjoyable performance? Absolutely not. Should leagues ensure that anything other than that considered "hip hop" is left out of it? Absolutely not. There are plenty people in the world who may not appreciate or care for hip hop on the same tip but enjoy watching battles, because battling has evolved now into a distinct and largely independent form. While it's important to recognise where it comes from, this evolution, IMO, should be absolutely encouraged.

I for one watch battles now more than I listen to hip hop. As well-versed as I am and as thoroughly obsessed with hip hop as I once was, I generally peep these forums and check out battles more than, say, new hip hop releases or online equivalents. I get way more excited about a Hollow battle than a new Drake album, and I doubt I'm the only one.

As for taking things like cyphers and beatboxing out of events in between times, while some might worry it renders the overall event too-far withdrawn from "hip hop", it's necessary at this stage in battle rap. Shows are now on a bigger scale than ever - even those in pit format - and people are paying a LOT of money to go to a battle event. Nobody is paying to see MC ShelltoeTriggaFingasMcSlimmerShady spit his mixtape; they're there to see battles (although it is agreed delays between battles need addressed). That doesn't mean they should be fucking banned from events or anything, but any spectacle other than the battles themselves has to be secondary, because the battles themselves are the primary draw.

Ultimately, we're at a stage in battle rap now where it has flown the coup; it even has it's own (albeit modest) media, promotion networks and support base. We can keep hanging on to the mainstream hip hop element and continue to put ourselves down in comparison or we can embrace it and seriously accept it for the carved-out culture of battle rap ent. it has very much become.

Those are my thoughts at least. No disrespect to anyone else.

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Old 01-21-2016, 04:10 PM   #63
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Jesus, I didn't realise how long that was. My bad.
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Old 01-21-2016, 04:19 PM   #64
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...like if they aren't actually rapping and just talking?
Umm, this is pretty much the garbage that is being put out now.
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Old 01-21-2016, 08:30 PM   #65
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i think removing the on-beat aspect of it has allowed rappers to come up with very creative, free, and unique flows that have no kind of restrictions, but also allows a lot of people like caustic or like 99% of the uk dudes to stray farther away from the art of rapping and just turn it into a stand up comedy show, and that does bother me
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Old 01-21-2016, 09:35 PM   #66
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I always been of the opinion battles shud open with like hollow on a wrecking ball and wat not
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Old 01-21-2016, 10:42 PM   #67
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Hip-Hop's a very all encompassing term, it incorporates an eclectic array of sub categories, and each battler is a bit of a derivative of a Hip-Hop sub-category. The only 2 subgenres I extensively listen to are 90s Boom-Bap and underground 'backpacker' rap from the 2000s. My favourite battlers like Rone, Illmaculate, Thesaurus, Pat Stay etc do kind of capture the essence of my Hip-Hop preferences enough for me. However most battlers remind me of commercial Hip-Hop, which I mostly despise.
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Old 01-21-2016, 10:52 PM   #68
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....sexy gifs are acceptable tho)

one sexy GIF coming up.

sumbody time me. also i take requests.
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Old 01-21-2016, 10:58 PM   #69
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Things evolve for better or worse. It doesn't bother me. What does is the dictation of what it should be and the appropriation. There are people creating "movements" for the "return" of hip hop, even charging for membership like a Battle Axe Warrior model, under the guise that they are bringing hip hop back and if you don't pay them to join you don't care about hip hop or your craft. People fall for it and pay. Stuff like that is extra silly cause any real hip hop head knows that hip hop has always been alive and well on an underground/indie level. Why does it need to be mainstream?

UK heads have their own underground subcultures that they don't even fully know the history of as evidenced by what Cruger considers "Grime History," which didn't even list the tunes known for essentially creating the genre. It's cool that they support American battle rappers, but at the same time, they aren't really supporting their own culture that's been thriving underground forever, so their own culture becomes lost.

I'm a firm believer that hip hop, battle rap, and clash culture just stems from Jamaican clash culture. People appropriated it and evolved it into their own things over time. Kool Herc was really just emulating what dub and dancehall DJs were already doing with their sound system clashes in the 60s and 70s. The DJs were also MCs rhyming and toasting over the tunes they played. As long as people are original, know their history and support their own culture, I'm good. It becomes stagnant when everyone is copying each other. Even Jamaican DJs and MCs always strived for originality while spitting over the same riddims and plenty are easily identifiable just because of their originality. I feel that can only be said for a select few in battle rap as a lot are just copying other's styles instead of creating their own or just rapping. Battle rap has evolved into gangster slam poetry without even needing to rap most of the time. Fans are also to blame because many dig these clones and don't care about the history or originality.
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Old 01-21-2016, 10:59 PM   #70
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Old 01-21-2016, 11:23 PM   #71
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Old 01-21-2016, 11:28 PM   #72
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Tbh to identify as a "rapper" these days short of actually being successful is pretty embarrassing. I would rather be known as a guy that beats them at their own game than join them.
I think that mentality mostly comes from racism and classism tbh.
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Old 01-21-2016, 11:32 PM   #73
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I personally am happy that battle rap has become enough of it's own thing that people don't go around saying that they just "battle to promote their music". I always thought that made battle rap come off as incredibly second rate and always kinda exposed the inferiority complex of the battlers who put that out there. But while I like that it's its own thing, I think there's a danger in changing too much in order to appeal to outsiders. Like, you know what would really make battle rap more amenable to the masses? Instead of a ring or stage it was a field, and instead of words they used footballs, and instead of outrapping your opponent you ran from one side to the other. Hell you could just call it football. I like battle rap because I like it as a form of rap. The further it moves away from that, I may still like it, but I'll like it for other reasons.
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Old 01-21-2016, 11:56 PM   #74
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battle rap too latched to hip hop to be creative in its own way :P


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Old 01-21-2016, 11:57 PM   #75
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alley oop

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Old 01-22-2016, 12:07 AM   #76
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@6000GP same sort of thing, not trying to attack anyone or start a fight, genuine question

How much of ones credibility as a rapper do you think stems from their ties to the traditional cultural aspects of hip hop? Like, from your personal perspective, do you rate an individual as a rapper based more on their technical ability, like delivery, flow, structure, rhyme schemes, ability to "rap", etc, or does it come more from their image/persona they project? If an upper middle class rapper displayed above average ability from a technical standpoint, and didn't make an attempt to appropriate the culture from a content standpoint (i.e. rap about the hood when they've never experienced it), would you rate that individual as talented? Or is it as much about their background and experience as it relates to traditional hip hop? If that makes sense
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Old 01-22-2016, 12:09 AM   #77
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I think that mentality mostly comes from racism and classism tbh.
Wanna give ron the benefit of the doubt, but I've seen that sentiment before...

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t680711/

"Since other people have stolen so many of White mans inventions against us, maybe we should do the same with them? It could also help to reach some of our youth currently lost in the Black Hip Hop world. Its a place where a lot of White kids spend their time, without real pride or representation. Maybe they could use something to boost their pride? I would say that today, among Western youth who are so indoctrinated into the Black music world, we should infiltrate it, and let Whites have something within that they can identify with. No matter how much negroid Rap is, I think its vital in order to get a hold of the lost white youth. If Raps cool at the moment, thats what all kids will mimic. And rappers are mostly black. Kids will mimic what ever is cool.

When white kids turn on their TV, all they see a bunch of "Cool, tough, hard" Blacks who doesnt take crap from anyone. We need some Cool, tough and hard Whites that these kids can look up to, cause with the current White idols, our kids will become so SOFT they will be a piece of cake for Blacks in the schoolyard.

Its gonna be impossible to reach young White youth with Underground White Pride rock/punk genres. We need to infiltrate the mainstream."
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Old 01-22-2016, 12:18 AM   #78
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Wanna give ron the benefit of the doubt, but I've seen that sentiment before...

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t680711/

"Since other people have stolen so many of White mans inventions against us, maybe we should do the same with them? It could also help to reach some of our youth currently lost in the Black Hip Hop world. Its a place where a lot of White kids spend their time, without real pride or representation. Maybe they could use something to boost their pride? I would say that today, among Western youth who are so indoctrinated into the Black music world, we should infiltrate it, and let Whites have something within that they can identify with. No matter how much negroid Rap is, I think its vital in order to get a hold of the lost white youth. If Raps cool at the moment, thats what all kids will mimic. And rappers are mostly black. Kids will mimic what ever is cool.

When white kids turn on their TV, all they see a bunch of "Cool, tough, hard" Blacks who doesnt take crap from anyone. We need some Cool, tough and hard Whites that these kids can look up to, cause with the current White idols, our kids will become so SOFT they will be a piece of cake for Blacks in the schoolyard.

Its gonna be impossible to reach young White youth with Underground White Pride rock/punk genres. We need to infiltrate the mainstream."
I actually thought Ron's post was more based on other people's perceptions so I wasn't meaning to accuse him of being racist or classist just that that whole "beat them at their own game" thing comes from that imo.
Wow though, that stormfront post is fucking ridiculous, it almost sounds like the setup to an episode of a comedy.
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Old 01-22-2016, 12:24 AM   #79
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Old 01-22-2016, 12:29 AM   #80
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I don't mind at all when Avo uses non hip hop music when making a trailer. Having the track from Akira on the Vendetta2 trailer was a gem tbh. I'd like to see more good, nostalgic tracks like that being used.

A Bloodsport track would be dope, say atleast the first minute or so of this 1 for instance...

https://youtu.be/EDbCZaAHEXI
I hear ya, and I was kidding about the music thing. There was a "punk" track he used awhile back that was crazy can't recall the title but I actually threw that on a playlist and listened to it every morning for awhile. Think it was from the event where bender and the saurus battled on the beach afterwards.
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