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Is battle rap even cool?


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Old 10-02-2020, 02:02 AM   #81
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Spice 1 was a bit more informative and emphatic about how hazardous gang warfare is and how unjustifiably neglected and oppressed his community was, later in his career he did some sentimental songs I liked. Big L was mostly, though not entirely, bravado, and Big L did a lot of "rapping about being good at rapping". Spice 1 also did the Das EFX scatman style vocalizations which I liked. I found Spice 1's delivery more intoxicating and mellifluous than Big L's. Redman was one of the first rappers to incorporate psychedelia, he was more original and eccentric than Big L which I liked.

Nah I appreciate Notorious BIG, just not one of my favorites, his 97 album was just too pop oriented for me, and it's a damn shame he wasn't able to improve upon it. But Notorious BIG never perfected Bone-Thugs signature "chopper double time/singing" bipolar blueprint.
Spice is maybe one of the most underrated cats ever tbh. Lupe Fiasco said he wanted to start rapping after hearing 187 proof. I mean fam influenced 2pac also. They had black panther roots in the family, and could hear it, in the way they expressed themselves. I wonder if heaven got a ghetto, 187 proof, face of a desperate man, tell me what that mail like, was thug poetry at perfection as he would call it. He started the stutter rap also. I thought he had one of the coldest flows ever for his time.
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Old 10-02-2020, 03:14 PM   #82
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Spice 1 was a bit more informative and emphatic about how hazardous gang warfare is and how unjustifiably neglected and oppressed his community was...Big L was mostly, though not entirely, bravado, and Big L did a lot of "rapping about being good at rapping".
Do you listen to Big L or have you just heard a couple of songs here and there? He had his bravado side too, but I'm confused as to how you can like Spice 1's stories of the hood and ghetto life and not like Big L as they both have a similar take and most of Big L's material is about that.

Just a few quick quotes:
The Enemy:
Knots in my socks, cops think I'm selling rocks
Pulling me over to see if I'm drunk, but I'm sober
They wouldn't fuck with me if I drove a Nova
Listen Columbo, you're mad because your money come slow
And what you make in a year, I make in one show
Now you wanna frisk me and search my ride
Call me all kind of names, try to hurt my pride
You're just mad cause I'm a young cat, pockets dumb fat
Talking 'bout, "Where the gun at?" I been there and done that

Street Struck
I started rappin' and got nice as hell
If it wasn't for this, I might be doin' life in jail
And some of my peeps are still in the game selling 'caine
If that's what you gotta do to maintain, go 'head, do your thing
But with the cash profit, make an investment
And try not to go to the grave like the rest went
'Cause you can be rich with crazy loot, own a house and nine cars
What good is that if you're dead or behind bars?

Fed up
I'm a nig who don't dig a muthafuckin pig
Cause to me they ain't nothin but harassers
That misuse they badges to whip niggas' asses
Then one day they slow rolled through the hood
With the .38s cocked, 2 deep, up to no good
They say that my skin was black so they attacked
Threw me on the back and stuck a gat to my fuckin cap
One murdered my man like it was okay
For the life he ended he got suspended with no pay
But if a man woulda took the cop life, he woulda got life
And never again see the street lights, and that's trife
Around my way they shot many teens
And them cops better stop, or I'mma stop em, by any means
The Big L won't hesitate to cold diss em
And if you ask me, muthafuck the whole system
There are too many young black brothers doin life bids
Cause justice means 'just us white kids'


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Nah I appreciate Notorious BIG, just not one of my favorites, his 97 album was just too pop oriented for me, and it's a damn shame he wasn't able to improve upon it. But Notorious BIG never perfected Bone-Thugs signature "chopper double time/singing" bipolar blueprint.
The second album sounds like 5 different rappers made it, lol. Not sure why he didn't divide it into two albums. What we heard of his third album makes it sound like he was back on track though.

On Notorious Thugz Biggie completely changed his style to rap with the Thugz. Compare that and Thug Luv (Both of which are dope) and see how Biggie completely switches up his flow whereas Pac does Pac. Personally I prefer the approach Biggie took to the actual BTnH style, but that is maybe a personal taste thing. Biggie could out jiggy Puff, out thug most rappers, do the underground style, even make dope pop music. Very versatile emcee.
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Old 10-02-2020, 03:22 PM   #83
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If you wanna listen to rappers who did KOTD/URL style punchlines I'd recommend Chino XL and Vakill, they were better rappers overall than Big L and Big Pun imo.
Haha! Seeing your list, I can tell we're never going to agree here, lol. Respect for having a different opinion though. Chino XL is possibly a better writer than Big L, but nowhere near as good at rapping. I think Vakill is aight and nothing more honestly, I (and I think most people) wouldn't put him anywhere near Pun or Big L.
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Old 10-02-2020, 05:15 PM   #84
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preference preference preference. I remember years ago, having the who would win in a battle or who ws just the better emcee between Big L, Chino Xl, Vakill, Ras Kass etc etc

Chino Xl took a lot of shit for his voice lol. I get it your voice is an instrument, but he can't help it lol. He didn't have a traditional flow either, which didn't bother me like some, but I get it. Could you imagine him dropping the wordsmith song during a battle, would of shut shit down. That shit was like Chila Jones 6.0. The reasons above and probably going ham on 2pac didn't help his career. Personally thought Eminem used a lot of his style. THe celebrity name dropping, bad mouthing his parents,satanic shit, wordplay, self deprecation, etc

Ras Kass especially in the mid 90's had one of the best pens I ever heard. NEver heard no shit like nature of the threat either. I think Dr. Dre put him in is top 5 emcee list at one point. Lot's of people thought he was boring, and didn't like his flow either. I disagree, but again I get it

Big L didn't really have a glaring weakness, and his flow/ delivery was top notch. Could question some of his subject matter at times to nit pick. The majority of people always picked him when we had debates lol.

I love all them, and a bunch of other emcees for different reasons.
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Old 10-03-2020, 02:12 AM   #85
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Haha! Seeing your list, I can tell we're never going to agree here, lol. Respect for having a different opinion though. Chino XL is possibly a better writer than Big L, but nowhere near as good at rapping. I think Vakill is aight and nothing more honestly, I (and I think most people) wouldn't put him anywhere near Pun or Big L.
I said Big L was mostly bravado, though not entirely bravado, as he did deliver more meaningful messages in a few songs. I really do still like Big L's music, it just doesn't stimulate me as an adult like it did as a teenager.

I applaud Big Pun for his vocabulary and for the fact that he rapped at quite a high tempo, which is not only difficult to execute, but it became rarer and rarer to hear rappers (and battle rappers) rapping at a high tempo from the mid 2000s onwards. I just think Pun's music and ideas were a bit lackluster.

And I'll admit it's a bit unfair of me to compare Pun, Big L and Notorious BIG to rappers who're still alive today as they had the opportunity to improve, which sadly Big L, Pun and Biggie never got.
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Old 10-03-2020, 03:36 AM   #86
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I just think Pun's music and ideas were a bit lackluster.

And I'll admit it's a bit unfair of me to compare Pun, Big L and Notorious BIG to rappers who're still alive today as they had the opportunity to improve, which sadly Big L, Pun and Biggie never got.
The only guy who was clearly improving was Big L in my honest opinion. You could tell he was creating up to drop his big album and he maybe needed just two or three years to mature as an emcee.

Big Pun was quite happy to make banging music for the Latinos and try out new flows and techniques. It's cool, but it never suggested to me that he had another Twinz, Tres Leches or Off the Books in him.

Biggie was on the road to being what Eminem is now, the guy who can rhyme enough to please everyone, but never makes anything more than 'that was decent' music.
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Old 10-03-2020, 03:49 AM   #87
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preference preference preference. I remember years ago, having the who would win in a battle or who ws just the better emcee between Big L, Chino Xl, Vakill, Ras Kass etc etc

Chino Xl took a lot of shit for his voice lol. I get it your voice is an instrument, but he can't help it lol. He didn't have a traditional flow either, which didn't bother me like some, but I get it. Could you imagine him dropping the wordsmith song during a battle, would of shut shit down. That shit was like Chila Jones 6.0. The reasons above and probably going ham on 2pac didn't help his career. Personally thought Eminem used a lot of his style. THe celebrity name dropping, bad mouthing his parents,satanic shit, wordplay, self deprecation, etc
Haha! I had the same thought. In Danny Myer's parallel universe, Chino probably dropped Nunca on KOTD and became the Pat Stay of that shit.

Chino XL certainly thought Em bit him, you can hear sneak disses all throughout his music. It did surprise me that Eminem didn't name check Chino in his list of inspirations as I just assumed that Em was a fan.
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Old 10-03-2020, 04:41 AM   #88
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celebrity name dropping
The Game confirmed Chino XL fan lol.

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Ras Kass especially in the mid 90's had one of the best pens I ever heard. NEver heard no shit like nature of the threat either. I think Dr. Dre put him in is top 5 emcee list at one point. Lot's of people thought he was boring, and didn't like his flow either. I disagree, but again I get it
Ras Kass was a marvelous rapper, he was captivating, unpredictable, eloquent, stylish, his flow was very high octane, the references, imagery and ideas he incorporated were very eclectic, encyclopedic, and provocative, he seemed like a very cultured guy. I'm not sure Ras Kass' similes were quite elaborate enough to evoke explosive reactions from KOTD/URL viewers like I predict Chino XL and Vakill might, but maybe I'm being totally unfair and under-estimating how Ras Kass would've translated.

I agree with your take on Spice 1. I'd be curious to know how much notoriety he has outside of California. I'm from the UK and it took me quite a few years of exploring Hip-Hop before I identified Spice 1. It's often reported that East-Coast rappers have generally had more cross-over transatlantic success in Europe than rappers from other regions.
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Old 10-03-2020, 05:26 AM   #89
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The Game confirmed Chino XL fan lol.



Ras Kass was a marvelous rapper, he was captivating, unpredictable, eloquent, stylish, his flow was very high octane, the references, imagery and ideas he incorporated were very eclectic, encyclopedic, and provocative, he seemed like a very cultured guy. I'm not sure Ras Kass' similes were quite elaborate enough to evoke explosive reactions from KOTD/URL viewers like I predict Chino XL and Vakill might, but maybe I'm being totally unfair and under-estimating how Ras Kass would've translated.

I agree with your take on Spice 1. I'd be curious to know how much notoriety he has outside of California. I'm from the UK and it took me quite a few years of exploring Hip-Hop before I identified Spice 1. It's often reported that East-Coast rappers have generally had more cross-over transatlantic success in Europe than rappers from other regions.
I'm loving these exchanges on here. It's all lipstick ally shit on so called rap forums these days. props to all dudes on some rap shit on here, props to all you cats. Spice recorded his last jive cd obligation on jive in New York actually despite being from the bay area. He had songs with nore, and Half a Mil on it (Rip).. Method man and redman collabed with him before that. Nas shouted Spice out in a song also. The east/ west beef was media generated, but lot's of west cats felt a certain way bout getting ignored from the magazines/ radio when they had more pull. Was some legit beef, listen to the WSC NY critics song. But yeah fam, when I was in high school, people weren't trying to hear artist from other sides of our country, shit was dumb as hell. New york tried to bully shit to simplify things


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Old 10-03-2020, 05:53 AM   #90
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With all the other DITC names mentioned in this thread, I am surprised that nobody has brought up Lord Finesse. He was the leader of the group and a huge influence on all those guys.
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Old 10-03-2020, 08:26 AM   #91
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With all the other DITC names mentioned in this thread, I am surprised that nobody has brought up Lord Finesse. He was the leader of the group and a huge influence on all those guys.
could say the same for diamond d also. Sucked seen a D.I.T.C show around the time M.o.p dropped warriorz, Fat Joe didn't show, and Big L had passed before that. But shit is tough sledding coming out after M.O.P rocked in philly. Crowd got pissed at the ghetto dwellers ice griling people lol, and got combative. OC tossed the mic down and they left after a couple songs.

learned 2 things, don't try to perform after prime M.O.P, shit isn't a good look for most groups. They waited close to an hour to come out, which probably didn't help

2. Don't judge them for what happened, cause I heard they put on great shows for the most part. Shit was a little underwhelming for the time tbh though. Personally could give a fuck about fat joe tbh, but they said he would be in person. Promoters lie about shit though.
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Old 10-03-2020, 12:48 PM   #92
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could say the same for diamond d also. Sucked seen a D.I.T.C show around the time M.o.p dropped warriorz, Fat Joe didn't show, and Big L had passed before that. But shit is tough sledding coming out after M.O.P rocked in philly. Crowd got pissed at the ghetto dwellers ice griling people lol, and got combative. OC tossed the mic down and they left after a couple songs.

learned 2 things, don't try to perform after prime M.O.P, shit isn't a good look for most groups. They waited close to an hour to come out, which probably didn't help

2. Don't judge them for what happened, cause I heard they put on great shows for the most part. Shit was a little underwhelming for the time tbh though. Personally could give a fuck about fat joe tbh, but they said he would be in person. Promoters lie about shit though.
Yeah it is funny how that happens. I saw Nas and he was experimenting with a new hypeman who kept getting the bars wrong. Haha! Most people tell me how amazing Nas is live, but it was really cringe
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Old 10-03-2020, 05:15 PM   #93
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People are talking about sharing battles or inviting friends to events -- That's awkward because most hip hop fans don't enjoy it and won't react at all and would rather just put an album on
I live in NYC. That's literally NEVER the case. I have never shown anyone a rap battle to a Hiphop head and gotten an awkward reaction.
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Old 10-03-2020, 06:27 PM   #94
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I live in NYC. That's literally NEVER the case. I have never shown anyone a rap battle to a Hiphop head and gotten an awkward reaction.
A lot of things happen in NYC that wouldn't happen anywhere else

in all seriousness, that's interesting, I can only speculate as to why that is the case, I'll chalk it up to you being in New York, having really open-minded friends who are hardcore into hip hop-- But you would be the exception rather than the rule -- Consider yourself fortunate
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Old 10-03-2020, 10:06 PM   #95
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I live in NYC. That's literally NEVER the case. I have never shown anyone a rap battle to a Hiphop head and gotten an awkward reaction.
Would you say that in nyc most people are familiar with the different elements of hip hop?
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Old 10-04-2020, 07:56 AM   #96
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Yeah it is funny how that happens. I saw Nas and he was experimenting with a new hypeman who kept getting the bars wrong. Haha! Most people tell me how amazing Nas is live, but it was really cringe
yeah man, some of the lyrical cats don't do great performing live. Never seen Nas live, but heard some similar shit like what you said. I seen scarface and he was on the live band thing, and I was skeptical tbh. Wow this dude can really play instruments also, shit was amazing. I can't imagine how weird that was for somebody in goat convos to perform in front of maybe 75 people in Reading PA. He had shitty opening acts, could of easily mailed it in. That solidified his status to me, he did that show like he was at woodstock lol. You felt the passion, had no choice when he spits. He did an unreleased pac verse, and sounded exactly like him.

Never been to a battle event tbh, but I can tell live performance matters a ton. Not sure when the he lost in the building, but will win on youtube shit became cool to endorse. It's part of the reason why SOME of the older hip hop heads don't fuck with some of the battlers tbh
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Old 10-04-2020, 09:54 AM   #97
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yeah man, some of the lyrical cats don't do great performing live. Never seen Nas live, but heard some similar shit like what you said. I seen scarface and he was on the live band thing, and I was skeptical tbh. Wow this dude can really play instruments also, shit was amazing. I can't imagine how weird that was for somebody in goat convos to perform in front of maybe 75 people in Reading PA. He had shitty opening acts, could of easily mailed it in. That solidified his status to me, he did that show like he was at woodstock lol. You felt the passion, had no choice when he spits. He did an unreleased pac verse, and sounded exactly like him.

Never been to a battle event tbh, but I can tell live performance matters a ton. Not sure when the he lost in the building, but will win on youtube shit became cool to endorse. It's part of the reason why SOME of the older hip hop heads don't fuck with some of the battlers tbh
There is nothing worse than lyrical miracles in a club, lol. Everyone is there to go crazy and then you have some guy rhyming about rhyming and it is unbearable. I remember seeing Dose One live and I imagine in a jazz club or coffee house, it might have been dope but at 1am when everyone was rowdy, it was torture.

Battle rap is the same. If you haven't seen guys like Diz live, you should. The energy is amazing, he genuinely looks like he'll jump in the crowd and fight everyone there any moment. Even though I don't like that vibe, it's way more interesting than these unmusical guys muttering overly written threats into the mic. They have the skills, but lack the unpredictability whereas when you watch Diz or Arsonal, you have no idea what's coming next.
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Old 10-05-2020, 07:03 PM   #98
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Disclaimer: Nothing that I wrote here is referring to the URL.. I don't watch the URL and know nothing about it

Why? Because at some point, battle rap stopped being cool... It probably had something to do with dads in hats rapping for minutes on end in weird associative wordplay that future generations couldn't be bothered to decode, much less become a fan... Battle rap has become the rap equivalent of a dad joke

Or maybe it was the dads in hats lecturing each other for entire long-winded rounds about "I can't believe you live your life this way, smarten up, mister!"

Should battle rap evolve?

I'm not sure why this is, but it seems to be a natural progression. Lots of things have their heyday, and I think battle rap peaked around the time of SM2. I look at it the same way I look at WWE. It was so good back in the day, but I don't care for it anymore because it'll never be what it once was.

Doesn't mean it's not still great, but it feels like it'll never be as cool as it was years ago. Perhaps I'm just getting old.

I do miss the old days, even prior to RMBVA over at rap music, with trolls like Choppa and IknowAll. Not that they had anything to do with battle rap, but there was an actual community. This forum would pop off with live tweets from people that were at an event tweeting bars (prior to ppv ever even being considered). You had battle rappers and league heads actively participating in this forum. Somewhere along the line, things died out (for me at least -- this is my first time signing on since April 2016).

That's my 2 cents FWIW.
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